Michael Bernzweig:
I'd like to welcome everyone to this week's edition of Software Spotlight, your front row seat to the latest innovations and software for small business. I'm Michael Bernzweig, your host, and each week we're joined by executives at leading software companies to get an insider's perspective on the emerging technologies, business strategies and market trends shaping the future. Tune in to stay ahead of the curve on leveraging software to boost productivity and growth in your business. Be sure to visit our website, softwareoasis.com to access our free weekly software newsletter and sign up for our upcoming software webinar series.
Today we're being joined by Greg Williams. He's been with Western Computer for over 13 years and currently serves as the vice president of strategy. In this role, he is responsible for aligning the company's products and service offerings, including Microsoft Dynamics 365 ERP Solutions, with the evolving needs of customers across various industries. Western Computer is a Microsoft Gold Partner and Greg provides strategic vision to drive innovation and deliver transformative business applications. So with that, welcome to the podcast.
Greg Williams:
Thank you, Michael, and it's great to be here today. I'm excited to talk to you more.
Michael Bernzweig:
Yeah. No, it's really very exciting. I know a lot of our listeners have been following your company and obviously, you've carved out a name within the ERP community as far as your specialty in getting a lot of these integrations up and running for Microsoft Partners and companies that are looking to get up and running with an ERP solution. So I was hoping you could give us a little bit of your background at Western Computer, and a little bit of your journey to share that with our listeners.
Greg Williams:
Sure, thank you very much. I've been at Western for, it's 15 years now, and I have worn lots of different hats. I started off as a consultant, which meant I was going out and helping customers configure and set up the system to meet their needs, and then I took a role as a project manager. Then I took a role after that, assisting the sales team in presentations and scoping of opportunities and solutioning the project so it was properly scoped before we got started. Then about nine or 10 years ago, I moved into a management role, and I've had a number of different management roles here as well before my current one, which as VPS strategy means that I'm really the glue between sales and delivery, to make sure that we make the right promises and then we deliver on them afterwards.
Michael Bernzweig:
Fantastic. And obviously, it sounds like that trajectory or career path has given you a lot of the necessary skills to be able to not only understand what the different challenges are that could come up along the way, but to prepare for those and to make sure you're able to work with customers to give them the right outcome that they're looking for, and to bring the right resources together. So can you give me an idea, obviously, launching an ERP system is a major undertaking, and I'm sure a lot of the clients that you're working with are... I guess what I would say is, I'm sure a lot of your clients already have something in place that they're starting with.
Greg Williams:
Yes.
Michael Bernzweig:
And they already have some sort of an existing operation that they're either porting over to Microsoft or...
Greg Williams:
Yes.
Michael Bernzweig:
What are the different scenarios that you see? Where would a company be at, in terms of the before and the after? What does the journey look like?
Greg Williams:
Most of these companies only change out and change over to new ERP systems every 10 or 15 years. I'm sure as you know, some companies run them for 20 or 30 years or more.
Michael Bernzweig:
Sure.
Greg Williams:
So it's not something that they do every day, and they take for granted all the work they've done on that system over the last 10 to 15 years, all the things they've added onto it, all the customizations, all the integrations, and so then a lot of times we're faced with, it's not just the core ERP system they're running, but everything that they've added onto it and customized for it over the years. They're like, "Okay, we're going to replace all that in one year."
Michael Bernzweig:
Yeah, absolutely. And I can tell you, having been through many integrations and upgrades over the years myself, it's never a straight line or a very clear cut black and white transition.
Greg Williams:
Right. We've been doing this a long time and we're very focused on long-term client relationships, meaning that many of our customers, they've done an implementation with us 15 years ago on-premise, and now they're going to do a cloud integration with us. They say, "Whatever you're selling, I'm buying. We just want to make sure we have the right partner to work with."
Michael Bernzweig:
Sure.
Greg Williams:
So with those customers, I take a very careful approach, looking at all the functionality that they have now and determining what can be deprecated. Because there are things like, for example, catalog functionality that you may have used 20 years ago that you don't use now in a modern eCommerce world. There may be things like that that you can deprecate, and there may be new features in the software that you want to take advantage of.
Michael Bernzweig:
Makes good sense.
Greg Williams:
But it is a journey with multiple phases, in many cases. So like I said, you have that 15 years of work you've done and it's going to be hard in six months to a year to just rip all that out and replace it. So a lot of times we'll have to come out with careful plans to phase in the functionality at the right pace.
Michael Bernzweig:
Sure. That makes a lot of sense.
Greg Williams:
And it's not just, what can we configure and get working in the software? We have to be cognizant of what kind of change can this company absorb at once?
Michael Bernzweig:
So is there a typical size organization that you typically see coming to your front doorstep? I'm sure you've worked with companies of all different sizes, but do you typically see a specific size company?
Greg Williams:
Yeah, I would say if you were to take a scatter graph of our customers, the big grouping in the middle would be companies between 50 and 200 million in revenue. They're large enough to where they know that they need someone with deep expertise. They don't just want to hire the guy down the street to set it up, and they need someone that's done this before, over and over.
Michael Bernzweig:
Makes a lot of sense.
Greg Williams:
That's typically the types of companies that we'll approach. And then the industries are usually in some type of manufacturing, distribution, consumer packaged goods. We like to say anyone that has some type of inventory, we're going to be very good experts in helping them manage that and understanding that.
Michael Bernzweig:
Makes a lot of sense.
Greg Williams:
Now, we have other customers that are consulting firms and just use the financials. Those are fairly easy projects for us, but if you've managed inventory before, you know that that's where the complexity is in these types of implementations.
Michael Bernzweig:
Sure, absolutely. And depending upon what level of the supply chain that the company is at, you have different constraints. If they're doing manufacturing, maybe you have shop floor integrations that they need.
Greg Williams:
Sure.
Michael Bernzweig:
Or a lot of companies with, I'd like to call it the Amazon effect, a lot of omnichannel distribution. You have a lot of different variables nowadays. In the old days, it was strictly a manufacturer sold to a distributor, who sold to a retailer, who shipped to the consumer. And that is out the window nowadays. I'm sure in many instances you see manufacturers that are producing the product and need to be able to fulfill the product directly to the doorstep of the consumer, whether they're selling through a marketplace or not.
Greg Williams:
Yes. It's very interesting. 20 years ago we had what I like to call the Walmart effect, which is where everyone had to get in line to have quality data and have systems and be able to do EDI, and that really ushered in a whole generation of ERP systems then. And you're exactly right. Now we're seeing the Amazon effect. We've seen that for the last five to 10 years, and that means being omnichannel, having real-time access to data through APIs, not necessarily flat files or EDI systems. So we've spent a lot of time helping our customers with integrating with the right eCommerce solutions, and especially integrating well with Amazon, whether it's Amazon Seller Central or Vendor Central or their FBA flavors. Those are all areas where we spend a lot of time helping our customers.
But what's really changed with the Amazon effect is the capabilities that companies need within their warehouse management systems. If you can get away with dropshipping, that's a great business, but a lot of companies need to carry their own inventory, or that's their strategic advantage. And before the Amazon effect and before omnichannel with direct-to-consumer, if you were a distributor, you had a warehouse and you shipped pallets of product to Walmart and Target, Nordstrom, and it was a pretty easy warehouse to manage. All of a sudden, the direct-to-consumer came, and in addition to shipping these pallets today, I need you to ship 100 boxes to these individual consumers.
Michael Bernzweig:
Exactly. And everything needs to be labeled and correctly, SKUd and kitted.
Greg Williams:
So imagine what that does to your warehouse organization, its staffing, the efficiencies. It completely changed the distribution business there.
Michael Bernzweig:
Yeah. Plus I would say at a high level, consumer expectations have changed quite a bit.
Greg Williams:
Yes. People want things the next day, right?
Michael Bernzweig:
Absolutely.
Greg Williams:
Or same day. Yeah.
Michael Bernzweig:
Same day. Yeah.
Greg Williams:
Yeah, same day if you're in a large city, but really everywhere they want next day.
Michael Bernzweig:
I think for a lot of your customers, literally people hit a placeholder on their website and the customer is probably looking for a tracking number right away.
Greg Williams:
They are. And now consumers have gotten even smarter. They don't just want the tracking number, they want to see that the tracking number is active.
Michael Bernzweig:
Exactly.
Greg Williams:
Yeah. Because what's happened is, the eCommerce systems and shipping systems have got smart enough to generate a number upfront, but that doesn't mean that the system has actually picked that product or used that number yet. So as an IT guy, I can click on the number and see, "Oh, okay. They just pre-populated the number. They haven't really done anything with it yet."
Michael Bernzweig:
Yeah, no, and it's so interesting. I'm sure from where you sit, obviously you have a deeper level of understanding of all the steps along the way. So let me ask you, I know at Western Computer, obviously your team has been in place for many, many years and you have representation in multiple countries and you have your own staff. Can you talk a little bit about Microsoft with their Gold Partner program and what some of the requirements are, and what helps to set your team apart from what some of our listeners may be seeing with other levels of partnership?
Greg Williams:
Yeah, I think what really sets us apart is the breadth of services that we can offer. So for example, we can help you with accounting, we can help you with warehouse management, we can help you with manufacturing and shop floor, we can help you with data and AI. We have a really robust practice there, and then we have the depth to execute on it, given we have a lot of average tenure, our average consultant has 10 years experience with Microsoft Dynamics, so that's really helped us to be successful.
I think everyone knows that Microsoft scales with partners, and that's different from some other software companies. If you're talking to Oracle for example, they're going to work with you directly and they have partners, but they're also happy to work with you directly and sell the software to you directly. Microsoft is different. They are somewhat hands-off. They focus on the product and R&D for the product, and they focus on partner enablement, and then that allows them to scale. So partners like us are really Microsoft's secret sauce.
Michael Bernzweig:
It makes a lot of sense because they can focus on what they do best and you can focus on what you do best. And clearly that's a different skill set at a high level and goes a long way towards providing the best experience for the end customer. So obviously, Oracle would be one other company that companies might be looking at. I'm sure SAP would probably be another company. Obviously Microsoft Dynamics, other companies that you see in the space that your customers may be looking at as they're trying to pick a solution.
Greg Williams:
Most of the time it's going to be either Oracle, NetSuite or one of the other Oracle products. And then also SAP has a business one for small businesses, and then their HANA product for larger ones.
Michael Bernzweig:
Sure.
Greg Williams:
And then we run into all kinds of different smaller ERPs based upon the industry. But from a major horizontal standpoint, it's mainly... Oh, I know Sage is another one. You probably know Sage.
Michael Bernzweig:
Sure.
Greg Williams:
So Sage would probably be the next one that we see the most often.
Michael Bernzweig:
Now at this point, are most of the ERP systems in the cloud? Is that pretty much where most of the implementations are heading towards? Or is there still a lot of on-premise systems?
Greg Williams:
Personally speaking from our standpoint, Microsoft's Dynamics products are still available on-premise if you want to deploy them that way. I think out of hundreds that we've done, we've done one on-premise, so it's very, very rare. Every once in a while you run into those business owners that want to see their server in the closet and know that their data's right there. They just don't trust a cloud system. So occasionally that happens. I don't think Microsoft is going to discontinue the on-premise version anytime soon because for example, they have customers on oil platforms running Dynamics in the middle of the ocean and they just don't have reliable internet.
Michael Bernzweig:
Sure. Makes a lot of sense. Now, and obviously being in the cloud, the solution is continuously capable of upgrading with the updates from the solution itself. Are there areas that you see where certain levels of customization within the product make it challenging for customers to upgrade? And how do you advise in terms of getting beyond that type of challenge?
Greg Williams:
We haven't seen that very often because Microsoft took an approach of locking partners out of the base code and only allowing us to extend it through events, so we can do all of the extensions that we need without breaking the software during updates. The one thing that we do have to watch for though, is when we're integrating with another system, because they will periodically secure the APIs, and for example, they deprecated SOAP a few years back and went fully to OData, and some of our customers were still using SOAP interfaces, and through that update, they had to update their integrations to the OData REST API. So things like that happen periodically. That's more of a security thing that Microsoft will do to just make sure they can maintain their uptime. So that's what we watch for, is integrations more so than customizations of the software.
Michael Bernzweig:
Sure. And over your time there, you've probably seen a lot of transitions within the Dynamics 365 platform for Microsoft. What would you say have been the major milestones in terms of the evolution of the product?
Greg Williams:
I'm dating myself a little bit. When I started with it, it was a client server WinForm product with just a FAT client and a database. And then about 15 years ago, they moved to a 3-tier application with a application server and a Thin Client. But the biggest change would've been the move to the cloud that they did. And that really came into its own about five years ago, and we went all-in on that and have not regretted it. Microsoft has really executed there in terms of... To be honest, I didn't believe that they were going to let us customize the software and still update seamlessly, but it's happening.
Michael Bernzweig:
That's fantastic.
Greg Williams:
I was a skeptic on that, but they figured it out. And the other thing that's great about Business Central has been the growth of the third-party applications catalog, the apps you can download to plug into your ERP system, there's 4,000 of them now on the catalog.
Michael Bernzweig:
That's mind-boggling. Yeah.
Greg Williams:
Yeah. We talked about credit card processing at one point. If you want to choose a credit card processing vendor, there's at least 10 of them and you can, with one click download most of them, try them out in your sandbox, see if you like it. And then what Microsoft's launching right now is the ability to transact online, where you pay right there and give your credit card to Microsoft and they process the payment for the application and install it in your environment. So they're making almost like an iPhone installing app.
Michael Bernzweig:
Makes a lot of sense. So can you walk me through the journey for a new customer from when they may first find out about Dynamics and your company, and from when they first get started until they're live? What does that journey look like?
Greg Williams:
Sure. It usually starts with talking to one of our solution architects. And the first thing they want to understand is just the high level information about your company. Where are you at, your size, what are your goals, what systems are you running now, what's your timeline to replace your system? That type of thing. So that's our first kind of call, to understand that. And then based on what happens in that call, we may tell you we're a fit for you to move forward, or we may tell you that someone else is a better fit, but that's what happens at that first call. And then after that, we like to do what we call a reverse demo. We have you on a recorded Teams meeting, step us through your current systems and what you're doing with them. And some customers are initially reluctant to do that, because they're like, "I don't like these systems, I don't want to recreate them." But we learned that that's a really fast way for us to gather requirements.
After we do that reverse demo, then we prepare a personalized demonstration of the Dynamics solution for you, and we step you through what the system will look like in your day-to-day. Now, in the past, we used to do eight-hour long, even two-day long demos that were very painful, to be honest. We've gotten away from that because AP is AP, journal entries are journal entries. There's a lot of table stakes functionality that everyone just says, "All the good systems do it and I'll be happy with it." But we try to focus on, what's a strategic advantage for your business? Where are some pain points? Where are some processes that you want improved? And we spend a couple hours demoing just those things.
Michael Bernzweig:
Makes a lot of sense. And obviously, the solution is so much capability.
Greg Williams:
Yeah, it does have a ton of capabilities. After that, typically that will bring up more questions and they'll want us to go a little deeper. So then we'll do some follow-up meetings on specific areas. Sometimes we deal with a lot of distribution and consumer packaged goods businesses. So they may say, "Hey, I want to talk about rebates, I want to talk about promotions. I want to drill down to these specific pain areas for my business and just make sure that you have the capabilities and the knowledge to handle them."
And we will do that. And that really represents what a sales process looks like. For us, it's very consultative and we're learning more about your business as we go. We're learning more about your leadership, you're learning more about us. We're also looking for a cultural fit so we know that we can align together and have a successful project, because as you know, ERP partnerships are like marriages. They go on for a long time.
Michael Bernzweig:
Yeah, absolutely.
Greg Williams:
After that, we would move into a project kickoff and we do five phases of a project in order to get our customers successfully live. One of the things that we focus on is organizational change management, because we've learned over the years that even if the software, it works perfectly, if your organization's not aligned with using it, then it's going to be a tough transition for you. So we will start off with a detailed analysis of your requirements and document those. We use an interactive system for Microsoft called Azure DevOps that allows us to document all your requirements, and then later those same documented requirements turn into test scripts and user guides and all the different things that you need in terms of documentation to run your system. Once we do analysis, then we do design, which means we start mapping your data. We start to design any integrations or custom extensions you may need. For example, if you need an interface with Amazon, we probably won't have to write that custom. We have three or four off-the-shelf apps to choose from, but we'll help you evaluate those different apps and pick the right one.
Michael Bernzweig:
Sure.
Greg Williams:
Actually, I just want to detour on that a little bit if I could, on the need to select the right app. I'm sure we've all installed apps on our smartphone that drain the battery or have too many pop-up ads or that we can't get support on. Not all apps, even in the Microsoft system are created equal. What our customers tend to do is look at an app and they focus only on the functionality. Does this have the advanced business functionality that I need? But as your long-term business partner, we will look at, what's the supportability of this app? Are they two guys over in Sri Lanka or do they have an office in the United States? We'll look at things like that. We will look at, what are their support hours, how big is their customer base? So we'll look at all those soft business factors and qualify these companies for our customers, because we don't want their business having issues because someone picked the wrong app to install.
Michael Bernzweig:
Makes good sense. So once the process is finished up and the company is live, and I don't know, are there typical timeframes from that first call until the customer is live? Do you see general ranges of implementation timelines?
Greg Williams:
Yeah, from our kickoff to go live is typically anywhere from six to 12 months, and sometimes even six to 12 months plus, depending upon the size and complexity of the business. But the vast majority are in six to 12 months.
Michael Bernzweig:
And I'm sure a lot of the rollouts may be in phases or are they typically just a-
Greg Williams:
Yes.
Michael Bernzweig:
Okay. So it's not typically a cut over and go live type of thing.
Greg Williams:
What we'll typically try to do in that first go-live is just replace what functionality you have now in a stable manner, and then we'll add on all the additional functionality that really makes the system worth it afterwards.
Michael Bernzweig:
Just out of curiosity, do you occasionally see startups that start right then and there with a brand new implementation, or is that really the unusual scenario?
Greg Williams:
We do see that sometimes with startup businesses, and it's only with serial entrepreneurs.
Michael Bernzweig:
That's what I was going to say, where they've been there and done that and they know all the pitfalls of doing it wrong and they want to get it right.
Greg Williams:
Yeah, what they typically say is, "I don't want to have to replace QuickBooks three years from now when I'm outgrowing it. I just want to go to a real ERP system from day one."
Michael Bernzweig:
Makes good sense. I also noticed that at Western Computer you have several solutions, I guess I would call them. You have your 365WineTrade, you have your 365ContainerImport, the ParcelShip. Can you talk a little bit about those different solutions and how they fit into the mix?
Greg Williams:
Sure. Over the years, as we have similar customers ask us for the same functionality repeatedly, we've decided to build some applications on the cloud. Prior to the cloud, we really didn't want to do that because there was a lot of source code maintenance that really wasn't worth it. But now that we know we can have one version that's in the cloud and it automatically updates, then it was worth doing it. An example is 365WineTrade. That is a complete industry overlay on top of Business Central for the wine industry. It works for wine importers, wine distributors, and also wineries or wine producers. And it does things like, I'll just give you a quick example.
All wine companies think in cases, but the base unit, a measure for a accountant working at a wine company has to be a bottle, because if you break one bottle in the case, you're not going to throw the whole case out, you're going to convert it to 11 bottles. So every screen in the system, we added a conversion between bottles and cases, and we show both units of measure there. And then we have for different states, the different compliances for posting prices and complying with those states' regulations. And then another thing we've done there is build interfaces with all the common eCommerce and logistics suppliers within the wine industry.
Michael Bernzweig:
Got it. And as far as a lot of the projects that companies might come to you with, I'm sure obviously after they're live, it's not as if you guys go away, you're still available as a resource as they need, probably some more than others. But as companies are getting up and running with projects, is it usually quoted out per project, per hour? What do the billing scenarios look like?
Greg Williams:
We quote a project and we quote it in terms of hours with a detailed plan and estimate and scope. And then we have project governance on top of that to constantly be reporting on budget versus actual, and making sure that if there's any overages, that you're well aware of them in advance.
Michael Bernzweig:
Yeah, okay. So no big surprises.
Greg Williams:
Right. Yeah.
Michael Bernzweig:
Because obviously, the reality of it, there's always things that you may go through every last detail, but something that, and honestly on both ends, you may never have envisioned could have ever come up, or there's always scenarios that are unusual.
Greg Williams:
Or there's companies that acquire someone else in the middle of an implementation or get acquired in the middle, that kind of stuff happens too.
Michael Bernzweig:
Absolutely. And let me ask you, for companies that are looking to get up and running with 365, what would be the first step as they wanted to reach out to you guys?
Greg Williams:
The first step to reach out to Western Computer would just be go to our website, browse around, see some of the solutions we have, send us an email through there, or interact with our chatbot there, which is manned by our salespeople most of the time. A couple different ways to do that. But just contact us through our website and we would take care of you with a free consultation to learn more about your requirements.
Michael Bernzweig:
Perfect, perfect. And obviously, we'll leave a link in the show notes and all of that for people that are looking to take that next step. And for anyone that's just getting started out in the industry and considering getting into ERP for a career or something on that idea, do you have any advice you'd give to people who are looking at ERP as a career choice?
Greg Williams:
Yeah, learn accounting. If you want to get into ERP software, it really is at its core, it's accounting software. And I don't think enough college students understand, especially in the accounting or finance arena, that there's a whole industry built around software and services for accounting and ERP.
Michael Bernzweig:
Very good. No, I know there's so many different career choices and different routes that people can take, and obviously tech is a great opportunity, but going into it with eyes wide open and getting a first taste of it is really important.
Greg Williams:
Yeah, Michael, no one thinks about, no one dreams about going into accounting software, but every business has to have it. It's a critical need. It's not going to go anywhere. It's not as fun as developing video game software, but there's a critical need in the market for it.
Michael Bernzweig:
Absolutely. No, that's fantastic. Well, I really appreciate your joining us on the Software Spotlight today. I think that was very interesting for a lot of our community because we've had quite a few guests in different areas, but ERP is obviously very, as you mentioned, is super important. Maybe not the sexiest, but something that every single business touches upon, and getting it done correctly is really important. So thank you on that end.
Coming up on our next show, Chris Hood, who's the founder of Muddy Robot Games, talking about games and all of that, that was a great, great lead in. He has independent game development studio that he runs, and he has a passion for creating immersive and engaging experiences. Chris has led his team to developing several critically acclaimed titles across multiple platforms, blending innovative gameplay mechanics with captivating storytelling. Muddy Robot Games continues to push the boundaries and delivers unique gaming adventures for players worldwide. So that's coming up on our next episode. And today, we've had Greg from Western Computer on the Software Spotlight, and thank you for joining us today.
Greg Williams:
Thank you very much. Bye-bye.
