Speaker 1:
You are listening to the Conversational Selling podcast with Nancy Calabrese.
Nancy Calabrese:
Everyone it's Nancy Calabrese and it's time again for Conversational Selling, the podcast where sales leaders and business experts share what's going on in sales and marketing today, and it always starts with the human conversation. Today we're speaking with Ryan Pollyniak, a cloud transformation executive at Western Computer. Ryan is a seasoned sales professional with a rich background in the Microsoft Dynamic space. Before joining Western Computer in 2015, Brian spent significant time with an ISV or add-on solution in the Microsoft Dynamics ecosystem, working closely with partners to sell products to companies using Microsoft Dynamics. Catering to medium to enterprise sized businesses, Ryan is well versed in ERP and CRM strategies and heavily involved in the Microsoft Dynamics channel. Welcome to the show, Ryan.
Ryan Pollyniak:
Hi Nancy. Thanks for having me. Glad to be here.
Nancy Calabrese:
Yeah, I'm excited to speak with you. So my opening question, I love speaking with other sales folks. So how did you get involved in sales?
Ryan Pollyniak:
Well, I came out of college, University of Georgia with a business degree and ended up through some networking opportunities taking a role at ADP. And that role was in the sales department. It was working with companies on ERP solutions, and it was like drinking from a fire hose out of the gate.
Nancy Calabrese:
Really?
Ryan Pollyniak:
I had always had an ability, I think, to talk to people and connect with people and to keep myself organized and I fit in pretty well there and here I am 20 years later, still in the same line of work and managing these complex sales and solution sales for the Microsoft Channel.
Nancy Calabrese:
Wow. Wow. I mean, your world is a little foreign to me. And for those folks that don't understand acronyms, what does ISV stand for?
Ryan Pollyniak:
Absolutely, yeah, so you've got your big systems, right, your ERP, or think of it as SAP, but Microsoft's version. And then you've got a suite of add-on solutions for that, where independent companies are developing application enhancements, adding functionality. So ISV stands for Independent Software Vendor. And yeah, after I worked for ADP for a while, I went and worked for an ISV, an Independent Software Vendor in the Microsoft Dynamics space and that's how I got introduced to Dynamics in and of itself as a document management company that bolted onto Microsoft Dynamics and added some capabilities that were not otherwise there. So that's what an ISV is.
Nancy Calabrese:
Wow. Okay. I'm getting a new education today, Ryan, this is for sure. I know that you believe it's important to align sales and marketing strategies for success. Can you expand on that?
Ryan Pollyniak:
Yeah, absolutely. And part of that is making sure to attract the type of prospective clients that you want and that you're going to be successful in. I call it staying in our lane as a sales organization where we don't want to be all things to all people. We want to do what we do very well. And there's a great book out there called Essentialism that focuses on that and how well some organizations have done that in the past to great effect. And so when you're taking that line of thought, you want to make sure that your marketing messaging and your marketing target audience is in line with the types of projects that you want to bring in as an organization and what you want your salespeople following up on. Otherwise, you end up with the shotgun approach of getting all kinds of leads in terms of high volume and high quantity, but maybe not particularly the type of companies that you would actually want to be working with and that leads to your salespeople getting frustrated, sorting through endless mountains of low value leads and there's a huge cost to that organizationally.
Nancy Calabrese:
Of course. And it creates turnover too. In terms of prioritizing your approach to identifying your ideal prospect, how do you go about it? What would you recommend?
Ryan Pollyniak:
Well, so if we're talking about once I'm on the phone with the company, I'm always very transparent about how and if we can help. And that can only start after you've listened. So understanding what an organization is trying to do and what your true priorities are, and sometimes you've got to rein people in and say, "Listen, the list you just gave me is a mile long. What's the real important issue here versus the kind of nice to have maybe one day I'll need X, Y or Z." And that typically will help you boil down to the core need of the organization and you should be well aligned at that point on whether or not you want to continue the conversation.
And you should be very honest. In our business, there's no time for getting into an extensive sales cycle that could last six months. It could last a year if you're not well aligned to help the organization. So speaking to the C level is extremely important as well. You've got different opinions throughout the organization about what should or should not be done, but aligning with upper management in terms of what the organizational goals are will very quickly tell you if you've got an offering that's going to help meet the needs of the prospective client.
Nancy Calabrese:
I want to share your unique idea that's different and sets you apart. What would that be?
Ryan Pollyniak:
Well, I don't try to convince people very much, which sounds a little bit silly in a sales scenario, but I'm not a big believer in really trying to persuade as much as I am trying to help prospective clients understand. Once I've identified that we have a good fit and then I understand what the client is looking for, it's really about explaining that and making sure that they understand why me in the position that I'm in with all the experience that I have in this industry, why I think the solution is a good fit. And I've had people tell me right out of the gate, we're trying to narrow down prospective vendors, give me the short story, why should I go with you guys? And I say my answer to that Nancy is, and it takes people back sometimes is, I don't know that we are the right fit yet.
Nancy Calabrese:
That's right.
Ryan Pollyniak:
Can we talk a little bit more and we'll see. And then there have been scenarios where it's this one isn't in our lane and you're probably best served looking elsewhere, and I'll be glad to provide recommendations on where that might be when the time is right. So I think my unique approach is generally trying to understand where the fit is, making sure to bring in projects that we can be successful at, because at the end of that project, everybody wants success, implementation partner, the client, Microsoft, you name it. So setting that up on the front end by aligning goals with our capabilities is what it's all about.
Nancy Calabrese:
Oh, I totally agree. So by coming back to that prospect and saying, gee, I'm not sure we're even a fit, I need to ask you some questions, we have a term we use as negative reversing. Have you ever heard of that?
Ryan Pollyniak:
I haven't heard it put that way, but I'm interested to hear about it.
Nancy Calabrese:
Yeah. Well, negative reversing is saying something that the prospect wouldn't expect you to say. And so what you do at that point when they say you're a great fit, and unless you have all of the information, you can't determine if it's going to be a good fit and it's got to work on both sides. So you did a great thing there from a sales point of view. Is there a story the audience might find interesting?
Ryan Pollyniak:
Any story from my past, from my sales experience?
Nancy Calabrese:
Sure. Yeah.
Ryan Pollyniak:
Good question. So a story that anybody might find interesting. Well, it's pretty broad. Let me give you one. So in my business, and I don't know fully what industry is everybody in or where are you guys selling? And each industry is a bit different. In my industry it's a little bit niche in that we implement big systems, Microsoft Dynamics, and it's quite a closed ecosystem. And so you've got to maintain your relationships and not burn any bridges. And that's really my philosophy personally and professionally. And so a good example of that is this story where when I was with that ISV, and as I mentioned, ISVs, these are built-on solutions. So they're sold in conjunction with one of these big systems.
I was trying to convince the partners at that point I was selling my ISV solution to the Microsoft Dynamics partners to include for their prospects. And it turned out that one of my partner contacts there who I was really evangelizing our ISV and trying to convince her to include it with her sales, after that migrated from the ISV world into the partner world. And I was now, I'm now the one with the ISVs trying to sell their solutions. Well, she in turn migrated to an ISV and was really putting the sales pitch on me then to include her solutions for my clients, like a total reversal of roles there.
And my lesson would be that, especially in a closed ecosystem where there are a finite number of companies and people that can work on in whatever it is you're doing, most businesses are like that to some degree, where you get some turnover, you get some people moving from company to company to take advantage of new opportunities or for whatever reason, stop burning bridges. And that includes deals that you've lost in the past. It happens, you get into competitive situations and you lose a deal so I always try to give people good advice on the way out the door. I try to encourage them to do the right things and to make the right decisions and wish them best of luck and say, "Hey, come back if you need me." And you never know. And so building that network in a closed ecosystem is a continuous act, and you can never let your ego or your feelings get in the way of treating people the right way because they will come back around.
Nancy Calabrese:
Yeah, you and she probably had some good chuckles with the role reversal, right. I know what you're thinking. No, I know what you're thinking. That's really funny.
Ryan Pollyniak:
That's true, that's true.
Nancy Calabrese:
Yeah. So what is the importance of serving in a guide role as opposed to simply a salesperson?
Ryan Pollyniak:
Well, I think if you sell people things that they don't need, it'll come back to bite you, especially in a business like ours where it's so complex and people's livelihoods are on the line here. So while we're the experts, we are the ones with the experience and we have to, rather than convince people to do things just to make a sale, we have to be the Sherpa. We have to help use our knowledge and everything that we've built over the years in terms of processes and advice to help people navigate these complex decisions. If you try to go Google Microsoft Dynamics and figure it out on your own, good luck.
There are a hundred organizations out there with different opinions, all kinds of blogs and videos and articles and applications, and you probably could do a good job of talking people into things they shouldn't do to make a buck, but at the end of the day then that leads to dissatisfaction. That leads to people not wanting to be a referenceable customer. And so our mantra is happy referenceable customers for life. We want to be a guide. We want to be the safari guide, the Sherpa, whatever analogy you want to use, help people walk through these complex decisions. And if you do that properly and that leads to satisfaction, it leads to successful projects, it leads to referral business. The benefits are endless as opposed to convincing somebody to do something for a one-off sale and then all the negative things that go along with that.
Nancy Calabrese:
Yeah. Speaking of customers, how do you prioritize customer satisfaction as you go through the sales process?
Ryan Pollyniak:
Well, if we don't have a satisfied customer at the end of an engagement, we're not satisfied either. We have failed in our core tenet of making that customer happy and referenceable, so that's baked into everything that we do, starting with telling the customer, should we even be talking? Are we a good fit to help you or should you go somewhere else? It goes through with touch points because I am in sales and we're signing big contracts and we're signing big project teams full of big brains to go do a lot of work for these companies. It could be 5,000, 10,000 hours worth of consulting over a year or two engagement. And so my job then is not to just sign the contract and move on, but rather to stay engaged internally, stay engaged with the client, find out just very openly with the project sponsors on the client side. How's it going? I haven't talked to you guys in a couple of weeks. Just wanted to check in and let them open the floodgates, tell you what's going on, making sure that to understand also what they're facing internally.
And that's a really important question so if you've signed contract with a director of IT or with a controller and you want to understand what are you facing, how are you being measured internally on this project and how can I help you make sure that you are looked upon favorably? Because there are all kinds of different metrics. It could be budget, it could be timeline, it could be success of the deliverables, it could be driving internal metrics, implement the CRM system so that you can increase your close percentage and increase customer satisfaction. Understanding for me how my customers are going to be measured by their superiors for a project so that I can support them. I think that's very important as well.
Nancy Calabrese:
Yeah. Curious, how long is your sales cycle?
Ryan Pollyniak:
Wow, it does vary quite a bit. We've done some big ones that happen pretty quickly. Quickly would be three months. And then we've had sales cycles that have taken years because you'll get a company who's been on a system for 20 years and they start kicking tires years out sometimes because it's organizationally critical, these systems, and there's so much that goes into selecting the right product, selecting the right partner, re-evaluating business processes to fit the route you're going to take. Sometimes there are third-party consultancies involved, so it ranges quite a bit. Several months to a couple of years I've been in sales cycle.
Nancy Calabrese:
God love you. Personally, I couldn't deal with a long cycle like that. I think it takes a certain personality. I'm like, quick head, let's do it and get done. Move on.
Ryan Pollyniak:
Yeah, I can appreciate that. And it is his style, and part of it is that goes hand in hand with doing the right thing for the customer and guiding rather than convincing. I don't push people to make these decisions quickly and sometimes, don't get me wrong, there's always pressure. Hell, what's coming? What's coming this quarter? But at the end of the day, if I've done my job properly, what's coming this quarter might've been set up two years ago and done at the client's pace because with a project this size, the client needs to be ready internally to do it. And so helping somebody understand, well, this is what it's going to look like when the time comes, here's what you're going to need to be prepared for internally, organizationally, and making sure then that I'll tell people, don't do it until you're ready. I'm not going to push it forward arbitrarily just so I can hit my number this quarter. It's much more of a long play there. And in order to successfully do that, you've got to be thinking years ahead in terms of pipeline in this business.
Nancy Calabrese:
Oh my gosh, God, love you, Ryan. Stay where you are. So I can't believe we're up in time. It's very interesting conversation. What is the one takeaway you want to leave the audience with?
Ryan Pollyniak:
Wow. Be honest with people. Do what you're good at. Don't try to be all things to all people and keep yourself organized in your CRM. That's critical. I know your boss is asking you to update CRM or if you're the boss, you're asking people to update CRM. I'm a big believer in systems. I can't speak for everybody, but I personally don't have the ability to keep everything straight in my head or on paper. I need systems, I need reminders, I need processes. And I think any good salesperson is going to follow those. Any good sales organization is going to have best practices established in terms of how to use the system and get the most out of it so don't fight CRM and you know it is there to help.
Nancy Calabrese:
Wow. Okay. So for all my folks that are involved in enterprise businesses, how can they contact you?
Ryan Pollyniak:
Sure. So if you come to westercomputer.com, we've got a chat. There are real people now. Don't get me wrong the first pop-up is a bot, "Hey, how you doing?" But if you respond, you're going to get an expert pretty quickly.
Nancy Calabrese:
Awesome.
Ryan Pollyniak:
It might be me, it might be somebody else on the team. Of course you can come find me on LinkedIn, msdynsolutions.com. You could find me on Twitter, though that's not my main way to engage with people. So typically LinkedIn I think is a great way to do it, Ryan Pollyniak.
Nancy Calabrese:
Yeah. Spell your last name.
Ryan Pollyniak:
Yeah, P-O-L-L-Y-N-I-A-K.
Nancy Calabrese:
Cool name.
Ryan Pollyniak:
There are not too many of us.
Nancy Calabrese:
I like it.
Ryan Pollyniak:
Thank you.
Nancy Calabrese:
I like it. Okay, folks, first of all, Ryan, thanks so much for spending your time. I know we shared a moment that you're off tomorrow going to a concert, so you're going to have a great weekend, I know that. But taking time to educate us was wonderful. And everyone, Ryan is really an expert in enterprise. I encourage that you reach out to him and his company if you have any questions. And down the road, Ryan, we may meet again. I hope so. Hope you enjoyed yourself and for all my people listening, make it a great sales day. Thank you.
Speaker 1:
The Conversational Selling Podcast is sponsored by One of a Kind Sales. If you are frustrated that you don't have enough leads, or your sales team complains that they just don't have enough time to prospect, we can help. To work with Nancy and her team to help you manage your sales team, install her proven outbound sales process and create more bottom line results. Email her now at nancy@oneofakindsales.com. To learn more about Nancy and her outbound sales secrets, grab your free copy of her book, The Inside Sales Solution at oneofakindsales.com/book.
