[00:00:00] Kieron Bailey:
Welcome, welcome, welcome. This is the Restaurant Talks podcast with our good friends at Safewry Oil. My name is Kieron Bailey. Some of you have seen me before. Of course you have. You recognize the caps. And I'm here today to talk a little bit about technology, which somebody knows substantially more about it than I do, as I'm a bit of a Luddite. And Jim's going to take me down a happy road, and he's going to make me feel safer and more secure by the time we finish this conversation. Jim, that's what I'm looking for from you.
So, Jim, do you want to tell the nice people a bit about yourself, who you are, kind of what your background is and why we're here to have a chat today?
[00:00:32] Jim Harris:
Yeah. I'm Jim Harris. I specialize in food and beverage software for folks servicing the hospitality industry. So they're selling to restaurants and stores and hotels and want to make sure they have the right technology to deliver on time at the right price to make sure that the folks serving those consumers are happy with what they have.
So I've been doing it for 25 years. I've seen a lot of changes in technologies, mostly good in terms of speed of the technology and also flexibility.
I really look back on when the first iPhone came out. I remember a lot of owners that were in their past 50 really struggled with technology, but once they realized they could touch it with their finger and it would actually do something, it made a huge difference. And they're like, hey, my grandkids can do this. How come my sales team can't be out there, you know, doing this technology? So it definitely changed the perception of technology when it got easier.
And I think the Android and the Apple devices really made that possible for people to think it's going to work. I heard someone recently say, like, the generation now that are in their high school, early college age, they just think technology should work. And, Kieron, you and I are old enough to know it didn't really work.
[00:01:46] Kieron Bailey:
There's been many times when it most certainly has not worked. And I remember buying my first iPhone and just feeling a little bit overwhelmed by it, to be fair. And at that time, I thought, I'm pretty cool. You know, I've had an iPod.
I was ahead of the game musically, but still, it felt like a lot. So I love that. It's a great analogy. And there's a reason why I'm an iPhone user, because technology scares me a little bit when it comes to Androids. You know, it should speak to me, that personalization element should really speak to me, but it scares me, absolutely scares me.
So let's jump in. Well, you've been at this for 25 years. So as a man who has spent a lot of time in operations personally, and I've had lots of people come and try and sell me tech solutions, one of the biggest challenges, I think, is trust. It is trust. How do I know that I can trust, and how do we build trust with those operators? And you've been through this process a lot.
I imagine, to be fair, you've got a very trustworthy face. That's a great starting point, Jim. Right, already onto a winner. But how are you building trust straight away, when you walk through a door and you start to talk to an operator about what you're going to… what you can do to help them?
[00:02:49] Jim Harris:
I think a lot of it's just hearing their story, but also just letting them know we're trying to help make the right decision. We don't really know what it is until we start digging in, but everyone's got opportunities to add technology to streamline their business. There's still a lot of paper and there's a lot of spreadsheets out there that are not optimal in today's digital world.
And, you know, people hold on to those pretty tightly in terms of those processes. So getting people to do the change is hard. So it's really just being a little softer and a little more patient with people as they go through it, try to map out what they currently do and see how we maybe cut out a few steps, maybe organize things a little bit differently, help them save some money, but also, you know, get some upside, maybe be more efficient and make a little bit more money or serve their customers better.
I usually like to frame it as, hey, your customers have a lot of expectations. I was using the Apple example. The other one is Amazon and what they've done to people's expectations of delivery of services, like how fast things should be delivered and what information and how frictionless it is. Right. You get a notification, it comes on your phone and it gets delivered. You know, you're done.
And I think a lot of people in the business world underestimate how much people bring that to their business life. I expect if I place an order on e-commerce, that the order is going to flow through and I'm going to get good notifications and it's going to be delivered at the right price on time.
So I think expectations have changed a lot.
[00:04:14] Kieron Bailey:
You're not wrong. I think, I mean, Amazon's a really good example.
They've done a thing—they've trained us basically. They've trained us as human beings as to what we should expect from an experience.
I went to go and order something on Amazon a couple of weeks ago and they told me it was going to take me two days to get it. And I was annoyed. I was annoyed that it was going to take 48 hours for this thing to be from somewhere magically that's nowhere near me to be in the palms of my hand. And I'm frustrated.
I'm like, why am I annoyed by this? That's like 48 hours is not an unreasonable time frame. But they've kind of… they've done this thing where they've literally trained us to set expectations. And then that—you're absolutely right—that carries through to every part of our lives.
So how do you see that that has carried through to maybe tech within hospitality?
[00:05:00] Jim Harris:
I think like using a beverage example: let's say you're a distributor of wine and spirit products and you're delivering to restaurants or hotels your products.
You know, the bartenders and the bar managers really expect you to have an e-commerce website that's fully developed in terms of content, that has their sales history, has what they owe money on, and the ability to place an order and know what the inventory is, whether they're going to get it or not.
So I think there's a lot of expectations there and some folks have done a really good job on it, but it's pretty complicated. I know in the US there's tiers, you know, that you have to have a distributor and that creates a lot more information overload for people because they carry a lot of items.
But I think that really, Kieron, is a big part of it—people expect they want to be able to order 24/7. They don't want to have to wait for a rep. They want to be able to know that the price… if they add more volume, they might get a better price. They don't want to have to work through someone to get that special price.
And that's what a lot of times the sales reps in the old-school world are trying to do. It's like, hey, don't order there, I'll get you a better deal because I know how to do that. And that I think goes against the business ownership a little bit in terms of what they're trying to add value to the customer.
But yeah, that's definitely something I've seen over the last bunch of years. There's a lot of resistance to getting outside that sales rep relationship for good reason—that does drive a lot of business.
But there's a lot of competitors out there. So you really have to figure out where… who you're competing against and how you're serving your customers.
[00:06:35] Kieron Bailey:
A really interesting point that I think all operators have had—historically they've had sales reps that they built that relationship. And we started off talking about trust. Well, you build that trust, you build that understanding, you build that knowledge and that kind of connection with a sales rep.
It's not quite the same when you've got a 24/7 ordering system and you don't feel like maybe you can get the best deal that's available because you know that Jim—Jim's going to work it out for me. He's going to get me where I need to be.
But actually if the system is… if the system is effective and it's set up correctly, then the best price will just be available anyway. It's a simple answer.
So we're not relying on that relationship.
[00:07:13] Jim Harris:
Well, Kieron, the enemy in sales is always time.
So if you're a bartender or a buyer at a restaurant and I'm trying to sell you wine and spirits, if I spend—I only have 15 minutes with you—if I spend 10 minutes getting a reorder on products you've already carried and I only now have five to show you a new Pinot Noir or a new gin for a cocktail…
What if I had all 15 minutes? Because you've already placed your reorder. You already know what you want to reorder. Why spend time on that?
Get rid of that and focus on, hey, how do I increase your business? Maybe make a little bit more money on this drink menu or this wine-by-the-glass offering.
So I think there's a lot of opportunity there to use that wisely if you're a rep—to use that technology to get rid of the mundane everyday things and focus on the upsells.
[00:08:00] Kieron Bailey:
Yeah, I love that and I think it just makes so much sense. Operators—we're all of us, to be fair—we're all time-poor. So anything that we can do to get that time given back, and then we get to do something interesting with it.
So you're right. You bring me some interesting products, you tell me some interesting stories—that all of a sudden becomes a bit of an opener and a real door that we get to walk through together.
And all of a sudden my menu gets a little bit more interesting. My customers and my guests are starting to feel a little bit more excited because they're getting maybe more cutting-edge product and all of a sudden we're all winning.
To be fair, that becomes an easy win.
[00:08:36] Jim Harris:
Absolutely, absolutely.
There's a lot of joy at restaurants. I mean, I think people that get into the business really like the fact that people celebrate at restaurants. They celebrate all sorts of milestones—birthdays, anniversaries, those kinds of things. So they're making people happy.
And I think if you as a vendor to those folks bring that professionalism and also give them ways they can delight their guests, they're going to want to see you more than—
[00:09:00] Kieron Bailey:
—The other rep.
Realistically speaking, I mean, I've always had this thing and I love Danny Mayer and he talks a lot about having isms.
And one of my isms as an operator was that we're here to make memories, not memes. And I think the whole ecosystem is a part of that mission to make incredible memories for our guests and for our internal customers.
I think we've all got them. And you're absolutely right that you get to be a part of that and you get to kind of contribute.
And I guess realistically, if you're thinking about kind of… if you've got an online ordering system that is up to date and on point, one of the things that we've noticed over here in the UK is obviously the tariffs that have kind of come into place across the US.
And I was kind of whizzing through some of your content on LinkedIn and it's a big conversation point, isn't it, that the tariffs have caused some real drama? Obviously great tech can be a facilitator to try and manage that particular challenge as best as possible.
Do you think that's something that's available for the average hospitality worker?
[00:10:06] Jim Harris:
I think it directly… to the worker, I think there's—
From a financial standpoint, understanding your true cost of goods sold is really important because prices are changing both from inflation and also these tariffs and other taxes.
And if you have systems in place to help you manage that easily—so when you get an invoice and you know exactly how to allocate that invoice against the products you've brought in, it helps you price your products better.
So your consumer is seeing the best price that you can give them and you're making money on those things.
I mean, everyone wants lower prices, but they also want you to stay in business. So there's a balance there. And if you can give them good value in terms of what you're serving them, I think that helps.
And a lot of that's driven by having really good cost information and being able to manage that.
That starts at the producer—whoever makes the product—all the way through the distributor.
So having technology through all those different levels helps when it actually reaches the consumers. Everyone's doing their best to give the best price possible for the value.
[00:11:07] Kieron Bailey:
Perfect. So let's go back to the start. Jim, how did you get into technology?
What was the driver for you? What was the thing about it that just made you think this is the thing for me? Because 25 years, it's a long time to be doing this.
[00:11:19] Jim Harris:
Yeah, I've always gravitated towards technology. I come from a family of engineers, but they're on the physical part. I never really liked the math of that.
But I did like, you know, applying technology in the world of sales and also operations.
So I really… I like the process-driven. I can think in processes. I like graphics, I like being able to explain things.
And so I've just learned how to apply technology to that because that seemed like a good way to make money and help people make their businesses more effective.
[00:11:51] Kieron Bailey:
Love that. I think it's one of the things actually that a lot of people within hospitality have in common—we're pretty systems- and process-driven.
To be fair, I think it's easy to think that systems and process kind of suck out creativity. But I utterly disagree.
I think that they're a foundation for creativity and they're actually a hotbed for it because you build that kind of consistency of approach and that's…
I know what I'm going to do and I know that when I do this, this happens next. Then all of a sudden I've got freedom to start thinking about the cool stuff that I want to do because I don't have to… I'm at that state of unconscious competence where I don't have to worry about what's being done next.
So systems and process make a lot of sense.
[00:12:33] Jim Harris:
Like this morning I was on a call with a bakery and we were going through different folks on the shop floor. And the one that was the most fun to talk to was the person in charge of research and development.
Her job is new recipes and she's always tweaking this and tweaking that and tracking the flavor profile and all the other things.
And I'm starting to see some AI components that they're talking about. I don't think people really have aggressively put that in there, but coming up with different combinations of things to get better value out of the product, make it taste different, make it taste better, make it stand up on the shelf better.
So much science that goes into making products that we see every day on our shelves and in our hospitality locations that people don't realize.
But she was really fun to talk to. She was so passionate about the work she was doing and the quality. And they were testing things after it came out of the oven and also through the line and the packaging.
There's just so much detail that goes into everything you see all around you that people just take for granted. And it's so fun to see how they do it in the background.
[00:13:35] Kieron Bailey:
I love that obsession for detail on all of those steps. And you're just thinking, how do I make this the very best version of it that I can? And maybe the first draft, the second draft, the third draft is not it.
But you get there just by reiterating, going step by step. Sounds like she's got an amazing job, to be honest with you.
And spending time with bakers always feels like a good use of a day. Good use of a day, I would say.
[00:13:56] Jim Harris:
Absolutely.
[00:13:57] Kieron Bailey:
Got to be a victory.
So when we're thinking about tech, I'm thinking about how do we deploy tech?
As a man who's kind of spent a lot of time working within restaurants and bars and things, and I've seen tech deployed, sometimes I've seen it deployed really, really well, and sometimes I've seen it deployed particularly poorly, and it's caused me a whole load of pain.
Have you got any tips for kind of that flawless deployment?
And I say flawless with this aspirational hope, because that's a big one, isn't it, to say we're going to get a flawless deployment.
But what tips have you got for me to say: how do we put this tech—any tech, I guess—into action in your business to ensure the best results?
[00:14:34] Jim Harris:
I think the biggest change that I've seen—really, it's been going on 20 years, but especially the last seven to eight years—is cloud. Everything has gone to the cloud.
And it just simplifies so much. Right? You used to have to have an IT person on staff to help you with the server setup and capacity and connectivity, and all that goes away when you go to the cloud.
It's just easier. And people are getting there. There's still a lot of people that have local computers that they run or servers that they run things on.
But I think the cloud helps a lot, Kieron, and then also it gives you more options.
But if you look around—if you just count the number of software packages that you individually run every day—it’s crazy how much software there is out there that all do a little bit, and some overlap.
So I think from an operator standpoint, it's: how do you streamline it?
And I think what's happening now—and I focus on the Microsoft products—Microsoft's main ERP system in the cloud, the two that they have, are really taking over.
So you can do more in one system, which really makes it easier, because with Microsoft, they're embedded with Outlook for email, they're embedded with Excel—all that's based in the product.
So it comes out in one. And other systems have similar types of things. So really it's about: how do you narrow down the list of products you use and get more out of those?
What I see a lot though is people try to solve one problem and they bring a piece of technology in, but it doesn't integrate with the other pieces.
So you wind up not getting the real value that you were hoping.
And that's where—you were referring to it—it's not seamless anymore. It's just more work.
Sometimes it's double entry. Sometimes it's more training. The systems don't look or feel the same.
So I think in the next five years, we're going to see more progress there.
And I don't know how much you've followed on the AI agent world that we're getting into now, but it's going to be fascinating to see how work has changed just from that technology.
[00:16:32] Kieron Bailey:
I mean, it is literally changing the game, the world of AI. And I mean, I am still, like I said, a bit of a Luddite. So I still have moments of fear that Sarah Connor was absolutely right and they're going to come and get us at some point.
But I also know…
I spent some time working with some folks who are building AI agents for operators and kind of for their websites and various other things to be able to put it into work.
And their entire obsession is again, it's about saving time.
I've got one guy—he's the founder of a brand called Yuda—and he's obsessed with saving operators time. And I love that as a kind of starting point.
[00:17:09] Jim Harris:
That's the gift.
[00:17:10] Kieron Bailey:
Well, that's the joy, isn't it? Again, you go back to that idea: once I've got a bit of free time, what can I do?
Well, then I can start to do real one-to-ones with my people. Then I can start to actually go out and talk to my customers and listen to what they're telling me, rather than maybe scrolling through the Internet and looking at reviews that people have left.
So it creates so much opportunity.
Do you think—do we ever run the risk, do you think, where operators lean on tech maybe more than they should? Because I think tech should just be a great facilitator for great experience.
Because I look a lot at everything through the guest experience filter.
Does it make the experience better? Does it add value to the experience?
So do we run a risk where operators are potentially kind of leaning into it rather than just using it as a facilitator, and potentially using it as a crutch? It's kind of where I'm going with that.
[00:18:02] Jim Harris:
I guess we're going to find out pretty quickly.
I mean, I just saw the first McDonald's that's fully automated just went live. And so you don't even have to talk to anybody to get your food. Everything's robotics.
[00:18:13] Kieron Bailey:
Wow.
[00:18:14] Jim Harris:
In a place like McDonald's, it makes sense because it's so regimented and they've done a good job with production—making everything production-ready.
You're seeing where bartenders—they can do like a bartender that's a robot, you know, has an arm and can do all the drinks and has all the things.
So I think—and those are novelties—but you're going to see more of those because the cost of labor is pretty high.
But the cost of those are high too.
So I think, Kieron, a lot to your answer is: it depends on how the price of technology comes down.
If the price drops enough, I think you're going to see maybe a tip where there's too much technology. But I don't see that happening soon.
It usually takes longer for that curve to level out where a lot of people can put all that tech in.
But AI by itself won't do it.
I think AI with robotics—that's where it changes things, because it's a physical world, right? The operator world.
So if you don't have physical workers doing it…
But I still think people want to talk to people.
But if those people are freer because they're not carrying the food back and forth or trays of dishes and whatever those things are…
You know, there's a lot of things.
A friend of mine was in the Detroit airport and they were remarking that all the wheelchairs that used to be pushed by people are now basically like an Uber.
You order it on an app and it shows up and it delivers you either from the plane to the baggage to the curb, or vice versa when you first get in.
What a great use of technology, right?
That's the world we're going toward—where a lot of those things are going to become commonplace.
Just like in California—Waymo and Tesla are really getting into the driverless cars.
I don't know if you're seeing that over by you yet, but you know, people say the first time they get in they're like, whoa, there's no driver in this car.
And the second, third time after that they're like, whatever—I'm just going to read my phone, I'm going to talk to my friends.
We're getting quicker at adopting technology because we're not as afraid of it.
[00:20:15] Kieron Bailey:
I think you're right. And I think we do just accept things more freely now.
And I think, yes, we have the obsession with our phones in front of us anyway.
So if we get into an Uber that is a driverless Uber, then are we going to lose too much sleep?
I probably will, because I'm a chatter.
So rather than my Uber driver having to say to me, “Kieron, would you like peace and quiet or would you like conversation?”
I generally ask them whether they would like a chat or peace and quiet because—I like to have a conversation.
We over here don't have driverless cars on the road yet, but it's definitely coming. It's getting closer and closer.
My wife works within the truck industry, and they're looking at driverless trucks already, which is mildly scary.
A car is one thing. A huge HGV truck is a different conversation, to be fair.
So there is so much moving forward there.
And I think you're probably right that the cost of robotics—you know, the cost of AI—who is going to be able to afford to be able to do that?
So there'll be a line that makes perfect sense.
The robotic McDonald's—has there been any kind of… is it too soon to see feedback from it? Or have you heard anything about what the customers are feeling when they're in there?
[00:21:29] Jim Harris:
I haven't heard much of it. I know it's something that everyone's going to be watching, right?
Because the cost was significant. But we also know labor costs are hard.
It's hard to get people to do those service jobs.
So if you can find ways to maybe make them more interactive with customers and less task-oriented, maybe that's still the benefit.
So I don't know. It's still too early to tell.
But it's not if it's coming, Kieron—it's going to happen. It's right there.
[00:21:58] Kieron Bailey:
Yeah, yeah, you're right.
I guess McDonald's have been toying with—they've been using the display screens, ordering screens, for certainly over here the last five years, I guess, to be fair.
And if you go in and place your order without talking to somebody, then it's a small step away from placing your order and then your food being made without having to have a conversation with somebody.
It's interesting, isn't it? QSR is definitely one of the first forward-thinking parts of the business when it comes to the deployment of technology, I find.
[00:22:28] Jim Harris:
The investment's pretty clear there.
They know they can map out monthly, yearly, how many of everything they sell and what they sell, so they can do the math on the return on investment pretty quickly.
It's harder in some other types of businesses to do that.
[00:22:43] Kieron Bailey:
Yeah, for sure.
And I guess you're looking in that particular space—you're looking for consistency in every single step.
So if it is machined or robotic, then you are going to get consistently the same product every single time, which is what we're aiming for.
How do you see AI adding value to hospitality?
Is there anybody kind of using it well in the US right now who you're looking at and thinking: that's very cool, they're changing the game a little bit with that?
[00:23:15] Jim Harris:
I'm sorry—could you repeat that?
[00:23:17] Kieron Bailey:
Yeah, sorry.
Is there anybody in the US right now who is using AI within hospitality and who’s doing something very, very interesting and maybe kind of cool where you're looking at it and thinking that's pretty impressive and that's got real opportunity to go out to a wider part of the industry?
[00:23:38] Jim Harris:
Yeah. So I think we need to define it a little bit.
With AI, there's three levels:
The first level is when you type into ChatGPT or one of the others—that's like level one, where you put something in, you get something back.
The second one's when you have a process and it includes five steps, and one of those steps has an AI component to it.
The bigger one—with agents—is basically you ask an agent to, let's say, book you a flight.
And it'll go out and check flights, have your credit card, it'll create its own checklist.
On level two, if there's a problem with the process, a human has to go change the process.
With AI, Kieron, the agent will be able to create its own steps based on the request.
And then one of the cool things is it could also go to another AI to check to make sure it did it right.
So there's this other level component that should be interesting.
But I don't think—in hospitality—I still think there's so much physical that if you don't have robotics there to physically serve customers or interact, I don't think it works the same way.
And I think there’s a lot of automation there.
Now, I will say in food service, I've seen some really cool stuff where, you know, I can take your menu and upload it.
And I can read that menu and then make estimations on how many servings you do per week or per month.
And then substitute the ingredients and say, okay, you have these five ingredients in that fish offering that you have.
And break those down in a way to say, okay, here's how we would help you save cost.
And here are the ingredients that we could bring to the table to help you with that menu choice.
I think you're going to see more of that—both in e-commerce and through the sales team—because LLMs now, and AI, can read those so well.
[00:25:36] Kieron Bailey:
So for those who aren't aware—LLMs is large language models.
[00:25:40] Jim Harris:
Yes, that's what ChatGPT is.
[00:25:43] Kieron Bailey:
And I told you I was a Luddite.
[00:25:45] Jim Harris:
Yeah, there you go.
It's gotten so good at reading a picture now.
You can take a picture of something and it'll read it in and digest it.
So that helps in a ton of different ways.
So yeah, I think it's going to be like electricity, Kieron—it's going to be everywhere.
It's just a matter of how much you use.
[00:26:07] Kieron Bailey:
That's a really nice analogy and I think you're right.
I mentioned my Ray-Ban Metas—one of the things I like about them is I can just take a photo and say “Hey Meta, what am I looking at?”
And it will pretty well break down what I'm looking at.
If I'm looking at a picture it'll tell me a bit about that picture, it'll tell me a bit about the artist.
So things like that become just part of the way you live, to be fair.
And I think—when I bought these, my wife was like, “You're not going to use those anywhere near as much as you think you are.”
And I was like, I will use them. I shall not be proven wrong and prove her correct.
She's right far more times about me and my poor decision-making when it comes to spending money than is good for me, Jim, to be fair.
So I have to make sure I'm making this part of my life.
But it's really interesting actually.
If I'm in a foreign country, it will translate what people are saying to me, which then… is a game-changer, to be honest with you.
So those little things like this, which become easily accessible, start to really change the way in which we view the use and deployment of AI.
[00:27:11] Jim Harris:
I guess I would say too, Kieron, that one thing I suggest—and I'm seeing a lot more of this—is that if you're in an industry, whatever it is, and you have competitors…
A lot of times your competitors are willing to share what they're doing from a technology standpoint.
You can—through trade associations, partnerships, or through LinkedIn—connect with people and say:
“Hey, we're thinking about doing this operational change. Where are you with yours? What have you used? What worked? What didn’t?”
I'm seeing a lot more collaboration.
People are open to helping each other.
You’ve got to ask.
But people are usually very kind in giving you information because it's not really going to change your business that much.
It's not like they're that competitive usually.
It's not like Coke and Pepsi where they really like to fight it out.
[00:28:03] Kieron Bailey:
Yeah. There's recipe secrets beyond that.
[00:28:05] Jim Harris:
Most industries don't have that.
[00:28:06] Kieron Bailey:
You're right.
And you are absolutely correct.
I was at a networking event yesterday in Birmingham in the West Midlands. And it's one of those events where historically, certainly from an operations perspective, people are very nervous about talking about their problems and challenges.
They'll happily talk about the stuff that's going well.
But they don't really want to talk about the stuff that's not going quite so well.
Whereas in this network, it's the world.
They're all just so open to talk about what's good, what's bad, and maybe you can give me some help.
And I think the world is starting to open up to that more and more, where we just see that actually we're not in competition in this way to that degree, that we can't support each other.
We can't give each other some learnings from what went right for me previously and what went wrong for me.
Do you find over in the U.S. that…
I used to hate networking, Jim, if I'm honest with you.
I was terrified of the whole subject. Really made me uncomfortable.
Over in the U.S.—is that a big thing where there are hospitality networks where people can go out and connect and talk to each other?
Or is it just a case of going and talking to your neighbors and the folks on your street in your area and having a conversation there?
[00:29:30] Jim Harris:
I doubt it's that much different.
There are a lot of associations and trade shows and other events you can get involved with from a professional standpoint.
But there's also lots of ways to just reach out to your friends and family and extend that.
You still have to ask and be willing to talk to people.
But I think if people really knew how kind most people are when they're asked, they would ask more.
[00:29:53] Kieron Bailey:
You're not wrong. You're not wrong.
I think we potentially make this assumption that folks aren't going to be so willing to give, when actually I think most people just are.
It's one of the ways I got over my fear of networking—I decided I'm going to start asking people loads of questions about themselves because most people are quite comfortable talking about themselves.
It’s an easy thing.
All of a sudden it gets a little bit easier for me, to be fair, because I just have to throw a little bit in now and again. And the world's a fabulous place. It becomes much easier.
So kind of… what does the future look like, Jim? What are you looking at and thinking: this is good, this is interesting moving forward?
And what are the opportunities for the industry?
[00:30:32] Jim Harris:
I think the big part is—if you go back to the late '90s, early 2000s—when we had the dot-com bubble, where there was just so much money going after businesses that really weren't feasible.
They were hopeful businesses, but they didn't really have revenue streams and a business model.
You look at the bigger companies now—the Amazons, the Apples, even Twitter with Elon Musk—and all those different businesses… they're investing billions in AI infrastructure.
And they have the money in the bank. It's not like they have to borrow it.
So the amount of money that's going into AI…
AI is going to have so much behind it. But I think it goes with robotics and driverless cars, which are basically robots.
So they'll all be there.
But I think people are going to notice mostly the agents.
I was listening to a podcast where they said most Fortune 500 companies—now you can't find an 800 number anymore to call.
They don't want you to call because that call costs $3, $4, $5.
And they're generally going to disappoint you because the person has an accent or can't answer your question.
So they're better off pushing you to the website so you self-serve.
When AI agents flip over—which they're starting to—they're going to want everybody to call.
Because the agents will be kind, they'll be smart, they'll have a sense of humor.
It'll be a good experience because they can build it that way and test it and retest it.
So there's a whole world that's going to switch where we actually call.
Instead of typing something into your phone, you'll have more of an interface like this, where you just say:
“Well, I'm trying to book a flight to San Francisco. Give me this, this, and this…”
And then an hour later you get the results back.
[00:32:29] Kieron Bailey:
I love that. And I was actually—just this morning—on the phone to one of my insurers, and for the whole time I was on hold, the messages would rotate.
But the one that was most consistent was: “You should probably just go to our website. Go to our website and go and ask the question there. You'll probably find the answer much quicker.”
And then you're right—when the person picks up, they're not able to answer my query and give me a resolution that makes sense and makes me happy.
So I start to get a little bit irritated.
So you're right—that ability to shift people to the website and potentially have a better experience… because an agent would have much more access to much more information than any person ever could.
You're relying a lot on training and the knowledge of individual agents to answer queries on a phone line.
[00:33:27] Jim Harris:
And like you were saying—your friend that's doing the quick-serve and AI agents—think about now when you pull up to a Starbucks and you order through the drive-through and you tell whoever’s in the headset what you want and they repeat it back to you.
That's going to be an agent.
Even when you go to a restaurant to order, it might be a really friendly agent that has a great voice and asks what you want and maybe suggests something else, just like a waiter would.
And the five-star places—they can afford more tech. They're going to have even cooler tech than the two-star places.
It's going to be interesting to see what tech divisions emerge.
But you know it's going to stratify.
Ritz-Carlton is not going to put in bad tech.
Or maybe—they stay old-school and keep it human.
That could be another business model too.
[00:34:25] Kieron Bailey:
And I think some people—that will be the answer.
They'll rebel against it and say, “You know what? We're going to keep it old-school. We're going to keep it human connection.”
[00:34:34] Jim Harris:
But Kieron—they may have your Ray-Ban glasses on though, right?
[00:34:38] Kieron Bailey:
There you go.
[00:34:39] Jim Harris:
Make their people smarter.
I bet they will.
You may not see the tech—but the tech will be right there for them to use.
[00:34:46] Kieron Bailey:
Yeah, that's definitely… I mean, if you think about kind of the original Google Glass that had the weird little lens, the frame that popped out over here, which was just odd…
If somebody walked up to me wearing that, I'd feel a little bit weirded out by it.
But this is a different experience.
And now actually—when I bought these three months ago—but in the last two or three weeks, I'm now seeing AI glasses that have teleprompters built into the lenses.
So if you're creating content and you want to make sure that everybody's given the same greetings, the same message, the same consistent approach… well, they've got this information coming in their lens that the general public cannot see.
[00:35:22] Jim Harris:
Yeah. I think the big thing is—the phone’s going away.
I think that's what people will start to see.
You're not going to have to carry a phone to connect and communicate.
It’ll take a while, but that's a form factor that will go down in usage.
[00:35:42] Kieron Bailey:
It's really interesting. Phones have gone from being tiny and small, to being really quite large.
6.9 inches for a screen now, just so you've got a good screen.
And then the next evolution will be that they'll disappear completely.
And I think you're absolutely right.
So it's exciting when you think about it and open up your mind a bit and put your Luddite temptations aside.
It's actually really exciting—the opportunity that could potentially be delivered.
[00:36:10] Jim Harris:
Yeah, I'm a technology optimist. I choose to be.
[00:36:15] Kieron Bailey:
Optimism is always a choice, Jim. Always a choice.
And we get the opportunity to make that choice every single day.
I love this.
You've given me some stuff to think about and how I potentially start to talk about how people could start to implement that effectively.
Because like I say, I'm a big obsessive that tech should be a facilitator of great experience—whether that experience is your customer experience, your guest experience, or your team member experience.
It's got to facilitate that experience.
And some of the stuff we've talked about in the last 30 minutes could definitely go a long way towards being able to do that.
Kind of exciting.
Love it.
Jim, where can the nice people find you? Where, if anybody's watching and listening, thinking, “Jim's dropped loads of gold here”—and you have—
Where can I go and get in touch with him? Where's the best place?
[00:37:05] Jim Harris:
The company I work for is Western Computer, so it's westerncomputer.com.
There's a Contact Us page on there where you can find me.
[00:37:12] Kieron Bailey:
Perfect. And you're on LinkedIn as well?
[00:37:14] Jim Harris:
Yep, I am on LinkedIn.
[00:37:15] Kieron Bailey:
Are you prolific on LinkedIn? Do you live there?
[00:37:18] Jim Harris:
I spend quite a bit of time there, yeah.
[00:37:20] Kieron Bailey:
It's a happy place now. And that in itself is a really interesting one, isn't it?
How it's evolved in the last 10–12 years, and certainly since Microsoft bought it—that kind of changed the game a little bit.
When I first got on there, it was literally: if you're looking for a job, that's the only time you ever really went to LinkedIn.
Now it's a whole different kettle of fish.
[00:37:43] Jim Harris:
Totally. Yeah, I definitely agree with you there.
[00:37:46] Kieron Bailey:
Exciting times.
Jim, thank you so much. It's been a real pleasure and I'm confident that anybody listening has either reduced some of their fear and discomfort about going away and implementing new tech…
Because I think you've given us some nice simple steps to go and do this effectively.
And it's been really, really helpful.
Thank you so much, mate. Have an amazing day.
[00:38:06] Jim Harris:
You too, Kieron. Thank you.
[00:38:07] Kieron Bailey:
Perfect. Thanks so much.
