Drewbie Wilson: Hey, hey, what's up everybody? Welcome back to Call the Damn Leads, the show by sales professionals, for sales professionals. I'm your host, Drewbie Wilson. With more than two decades in sales, I've been through it, seen it, heard about it. Now I'm bringing it to you, my favorite people on the planet, the sales community, because let's be honest, this is the greatest industry of all time. Doesn't matter what personality, what background, where you come from, what you've been through, you can find an amazing life in sales. Today's guest, no stranger to that journey. I'd like to welcome my friend, Mr. Ryan Pollyniak. What's up, brother?
Ryan Pollyniak: Drewbie, how you doing, man? Thanks for having me on.
Drewbie Wilson: Hey, thank you for spending a little bit of your most valuable asset in the world, your time, with us today. And for the sake of it, I want to jump right in, man. I want you to tell me your crazy sales story.
Ryan Pollyniak: Wow. Yeah. I've got a lot of them, right? 15 years in sales and all kinds of stuff has happened. If I had to pick one, probably that's the craziest, and this speaks to if a decision maker says they need some time, maybe give them a little bit of time. We're on site, we're doing a demo. The executive is in the room, the owner of the company is in the room, and we get to a pretty deep discussion about what they need and how much it's going to cost.
All of a sudden, the owner who had inherited the company, gets up, and we're in an office where we could see down to the docks, we're on the water, gets up, just leaves, doesn't say anything. We see him go out from where we are onto his dock, jump in his boat, and take off, just left. Okay.
I guess the guy had to clear his head. We finally wrapped up with the people there, said, "When you hear from him, call us back." And next thing you know, the next week he got back on the phone. He apologized for flaking out in the moment, said he had a lot of stuff to think about, but he was ready to come back to the table, rehash what we talked about. He didn't want to be too emotional in the moment. We ended up closing the deal, and they've been a customer for 10 years. So I thought that one was kind of wild, when you take the time to go visit someone and they take off in their boat unannounced. I think that was one of the weirder stories I had.
Drewbie Wilson: Dude, that's pretty dang wild. I mean, I've had some stories where people have left the room for a minute but never quite left the island, if you will. And so that's a pretty intense moment. I would imagine that sitting there in that awkwardness, everybody kind of had to just really, just marinate in it for a minute. What was that first conversation of who broke the ice from there? Who spoke first, you or them?
Ryan Pollyniak: No, I did. I'm pretty comfortable in my own skin in a situation like that. There's really nothing I could have done about it. So he left, and kind of looked around and okay, we'll wait for him to come back. And then we saw him take off in his boat and I just smiled and asked everybody else, "Okay, I'll leave this up to you guys. What do you want to do?"
They probably felt a lot more awkward than I did. I had spent my time to come, only to have that happen. It was probably mortifying for the crowd in there. From my perspective, I broke the ice and kept it light, made them know, hey, this is outside of all of our control. It's okay. What do we do next? Let's meet up next week and we'll figure it out. And it ended up working out. He just had a moment.
Drewbie Wilson: You know, though, I love the way that you broke that down because there's some nuances that I think, Ryan, I don't want to overlook and I think the listener can really gain a lot from, because A, if you've ever been in a sales conversation, whether on the phone, in person, on a Zoom, wherever, there almost always tends to be one, maybe two awkward moments where somebody has to make that next move.
And a lot of times what I've seen trainers over the years will tell you is like, "Hey, he who speaks first loses." And I understand the nuance of silence and the pause. I also believe that the ability to take control of those awkward moments is really powerful for a sales professional. How did you learn to be more comfortable in your skin in that situation and be able to push through those awkward moments?
Ryan Pollyniak: Yeah, that's a great question and I totally agree with you. There is a time and place to be quiet in a sales cycle. There's no question about that. And I typically reserve that for when you've answered the question that the prospect wants to hear and you need an answer. The tendency is to fill up space. This is different. This was a very awkward situation.
I don't know, dealing with people that I don't know and just met and awkwardness like that, I was probably not as good at it until I waited tables in college. I remember looking at this guy waiting tables when I went in to interview and I thought, man, I can't do that. Well, years in the restaurant industry in college prepped me to talk to people and to keep things light and to be able to move on. But then also, the more you get to meet people, the more you realize we're all in it together and everybody has their own, you have to think of things from other people's perspective.
I knew immediately these people are very embarrassed and I need to let them know that I'm not, and it's okay and we'll work through this. And I could have gotten mad and stormed out and said, "Hey, I wasted my time coming here," but that wouldn't have gotten us anywhere. I could have just let the awkwardness marinate. That also wouldn't have gotten us anywhere. So immediately recognizing the tension and addressing that and setting a plan then to move past it by syncing up the next week, that was the way to approach it.
And some of that is going to be, there's no playbook. So I would say that thinking on your feet is important and reacting to the situation. Just consider that everyone in that room is a person just like yourself, they've got their own perspective, they've got their own embarrassment, and you'll be able to navigate that kind of stuff quite well.
Drewbie Wilson: Ryan, I think you nailed it when saying they're all people and they're going to react to the situation. And where most people react initially is with emotion. And as you said, someone, you could have gotten mad, you could have stormed out, you could have made a lot of different choices based on emotion, but you took the logical route and you stopped, you paused for a second.
And again, this is where I think the power of the pause is really important to nuance from a sales perspective, is that that power of pause is the moment for thinking and logically breaking down what the next step is. And when you stop for a second, instead of freaking out, emotionally reacting, you went, well, I know in this situation they all are emotionally in a situation where they need guidance. So as the leader of this conversation now, I'm going to take control and make it less awkward for them by giving myself that weight. Oh my gosh, what a crazy situation. He must have had to poop or something. I probably would've made a funny joke about it because that's just the kind of person I am.
But again, you mentioned that being able to lean in on that and let them know that you were still there to help, that you were going to be of service to them, even though it was a strange situation. You said they've been a client now for what, 10 plus years at this point?
Ryan Pollyniak: That's right. Yep.
Drewbie Wilson: Amazing, man. And so I would love to know, Ryan, as you got into sales and you said you've got a decade plus in sales like me, what would you say has become your secret sales superpower or whatever you would want to call it?
Ryan Pollyniak: Yeah, absolutely. So I'm in a complex sales cycle industry, and this varies by industry, but in any sales cycle you have to guide the customer through it because the biggest mistake in communication, in my experience, in my opinion, is assuming that other people know what you know. So for all of the seasoned sales reps on the call who are experts in their fields, you really have to take a step back and work on explaining industry acronyms and explaining what the process is going to be like.
This customer may be talking to five other companies that do what you do, or even if it's just three of them or two, they want someone who is going to tell them how to navigate this process, be an advisor, give them a plan, and stick to it. "Mr. Drewbie, we're going to set a 30 minute call to cover your high level strategic goals. Based on what we find there, we'll gain some direction and we'll pull in some deep dive technical experts to go into a more refined discussion on a deeper level. We're not quite ready for that yet, but after that call, that second call, then we'll be ready to present a demo and to put some meaningful numbers together for you. How does that plan sound?"
They're going to say, "Great," because these people, again, you always think about what's in it for me? What is your prospect going through? Typically, in my business, somebody has been tasked with go get us quotes for ERP systems and CRM systems. This is a complex thing. It's not something you look at a price list and say, "Here's how much it costs." So they're contacting people and they may or may not be getting a clear indication of what the process should be like, what they should be looking out for, when is the end date for what I already know, even if they haven't said it, they really want, a demo and a proposal? That's what their boss has asked them to get.
So I need to give them a plan for how I'm going to deliver what they have internally been asked to provide their bosses. They may not even be making the decision. You may not be at that stage yet. And getting to the decision maker of course is important, but sometimes you do have to play the game. These gatekeepers, they've served their purpose internally. The boss told them, "Go collect me five quotes."
So if they get on with one person and they say, "Well, I don't know. I don't know, I don't know, I'll call you back," hang up. And they get on with somebody else who says, "Here's how we're going to go through this. We're going to have this call. We're going to have one more. That'll give us the information we need to create a demo and a proposal. We've got this outlier, this integration that we need to talk about." And frame it out for them and say, "I'm going to get you there personally."
And be a Sherpa. That's the best word for it, right? Be a guide. You're the pro. But don't assume that that person knows what you know. Start at the beginning, 101, you're explaining it to your new friend at the bar on Saturday night. What do you do? Oh, here's what I do. They don't always have, or rarely are they going to have the foundational knowledge that you as an expert in your field have.
Drewbie Wilson: I love that. And you're so right that oftentimes whoever's been tasked with going and getting those quotes, they don't have any idea what they're getting quotes on either. It's not like they went to the number one sales guy in the company and said, "All right, man, you are using this every single day. Your job is now to go and stop doing sales and to go and get us quotes for the CRM system that we need." That's not how it works. I promise you.
It's some assistant gatekeeper who's like, I don't know, maybe they know somebody in the sales department. So they might try to ask so they don't look like a complete [inaudible 00:11:40] when they get on the phone. But from a sales professional perspective, I love the idea of if you treat them like a five-year-old that you're trying to educate on your product or service, and if you don't have the ability to explain it to someone like they're five years old, you're over-complicating it and that's probably why you're losing some of the sales that you're losing right now, because Ryan laid it out perfectly. You can't assume that they know what you know.
And I remember in [inaudible 00:12:10], they always told me, "This is what happens when you assume. You make an ass out of you and me." And it's so true because then people get, they don't want to admit that they don't know. So it creates resentment and resistance and you can't see that necessarily because it's all going on upstairs. And so I appreciate you sharing that, Ryan, because as you said, it's the complexity of the situation that has to be broken down.
So what would you say is your, and I don't want you to have to give away all your secrets, but what would you say is your main goal when you're taking these complicated systems and breaking down to the simple level?
Ryan Pollyniak: Well, it's first understanding. First it's listening. What are you trying to do, guys? Strategically, what is the main reason you're looking for this? And commonly people will tell you the main reason and then they'll say, oh, this and this and this are nice to have as well. You've got to kind help them separate that out and say, "Okay, well let's stick to the main reason you guys are doing this. Your system's aging, it's a problem, it's a security threat."
And then based on that, creating the plan. Now, a big part of that process is pushing back because you're going to have the sales guy that you mentioned in your scenario who's been tasked with looking for a CRM system say, "I just need to know how much it's going to cost." You're the expert. Don't give into that pressure. Say, "Look, we do have to learn some more. The last thing I want to do for you, Mr. Sales Rep, is guess and have you go to your boss and commit to something and then that's not accurate. So we do need to go through this process. It's going to be a couple calls." You will feel pressure, guys. "Hey, I need a price, I need a price. I need a price."
And so there is also, while you're doing that, there's a balance between lead qualification as in, does this person have the money to spend with me? And then also scaring someone off before you really understand what they need or have presented any value. So you've got to tell them on a high level, "Here's the range for how much something like this costs. We're glad to understand more and drill into it." I hesitate to come out and say it's X number of dollars before anyone's had a chance to understand what value proposition is there. Because depending on what you're selling, again, you have to let everybody understand the value and have them want it before the price comes out. Sometimes that's the best way to approach that type of thing.
But you do want to be honest on the front end and give this guy a qualification. "Hey, this is a hundred thousand to $150,000 project. Is that what you expected? Or is it more or less?" Let them tell you. I don't like to ask, "What's your budget?" It's a different question. But you do have to find out because if they say, "Well, I've got five grand," and the project's 150, well, then you're better off moving on.
And that's the other part, learning when to disqualify and move on to another prospect so you're not spinning your wheels and wasting your time. You don't want to be doing that as a rep. You want to be chasing qualified leads. So I don't know, there's a few answers there. I don't know if I answered your question.
Drewbie Wilson: I look down and write things because I love, there's so many little nuances that you're sharing, and I absolutely love and appreciate it because this is the stuff that separates order takers from sales professionals. It's easy to sit at a desk and take inbound leads and just give them a price for a project and say, "Yep, the price is the price. This is it. This is what you get. Congratulations. Welcome to the team." Versus understanding the true depth at which a complex system like this requires in order to be built in a way that will deliver the results. That's where you have that next level of thinking.
And as a sales professional, one of the big things that you said there that I kind of chuckle to myself about is how often, Ryan, is it that you talk to a sales professional and you're trying to go through the process that you know needs to be done and they want to skip the process. They're like, "Yeah, I don't care. Don't ask me questions. Just tell me the price. Just tell me the, I just want to get to it. I'm a sales guy. Just give me the price." And it's like-
Ryan Pollyniak: Right.
Drewbie Wilson: Do you not qualify your clients first? Do you just take everybody with a credit card and a pulse? And there's something to be said about you sell how you buy and you buy how you sell. And there are people that fall into that. But what I really appreciate about the qualification process is that it leads to so much opportunity when it's done correctly because, A, if you're not qualifying, you may undersell yourself. How many times does that happen to you, Ryan, where you kind of skip part of it and you're like, damn, I definitely underbid that project and now I've got a lot more work than I planned on?
Ryan Pollyniak: Sure, it can happen. I also say you can affect your perceived value. If somebody talks to me the first time and says, "Give me a price," and just because you feel the pressure, you haven't gone through any kind of exercise to really understand what you're providing. And it's perfectly acceptable to say, "We don't know yet exactly, guys. Here's maybe a range. We have a lot to learn." And I would also caution against, "Why are you the best for me," right out of the gate? And I've got a very short story for that one.
Drewbie Wilson: Yeah, go ahead.
Ryan Pollyniak: I'm sitting in a conference room with executives. We're just in the strategy stage and we're just learning about these people in this company and what they want to do and what systems are on and what goals. At one point during the meeting, the owner came in and he sat down and he said, "I've only got a few minutes here. You've only got a few minutes of my time. Tell me why you're the best solution for my organization."
And I looked right back at him and I said, "I don't know that we are yet. That's why we're here, to learn what you need and see if we're the best and see if we could fit." And that's the proper answer in that situation. I'm actually providing value at that point. Not an order taker. I'm not submitting to the pressure, even though the guy's the owner of the company telling me, "You've got five minutes." And then I backed that up and said, "Here's why what we're offering is industry leading and here's why it's good for some people. Your company, Mr. Owner, we have a lot to learn about your business and then we'll tell you why and if we're the best." And that resonated quite well.
Drewbie Wilson: I love that. I'm thinking about rebuttals and responses because I can only imagine if someone came to me, I'd probably hit them back with something like, "Well, sir, that's why I'm here, because time is your most valuable asset and we can't get it back, so let's not waste any. I've got to ask you these questions to make sure that we are the best fit for what you need. And if not, I won't waste any more of your time or mine and we can call it a day. Does that sound fair, sir?"
Ryan Pollyniak: There you go. That's not what I said, Drewbie, but you said it well, though.
Drewbie Wilson: Hey, well, Ryan, like birds of a feather, we flock together, man. That's why I'm so grateful for the opportunity to connect with so many amazing people in this industry because like I said at the start, sales create so much opportunity no matter where you come from, what background you've had. And so for you, as you've grown through your sales career, stepped into training and teaching others, what would you say has been the number one thing that you really hammer into when you are trying to teach others to sell and to lead into that product sales?
Ryan Pollyniak: Yeah, so the number one thing, well, we touched on understanding requirements or understanding needs. We touched on what's in it for me as each person you talk to, it doesn't just go for the gatekeeper. You talk to IT, their what's in it for me is different than the CFO. The person who processes all the AP payments, well, they might not want to hear about your AP automation solution because that's what they do, right? The CFO might want to hear about that, of course. So you've always got to understand who you're talking to and what their motivations are and really think about it. Put yourself in their shoes is the number one thing in any sales process. That goes across any type of sales, complex, down to commodity based. Buy a pallet of widgets from me.
And so understanding what those people, putting yourself in the prospect's shoes is number one. Leading them through creating a process, articulating that to them, certainly high up there. And then I mentioned not assuming that they know what you know, critical as well. It's a big pitfall to get into industry acronyms and terminology that you kick around with your coworkers all the time and everyone lives it every day. The person has no idea what you're talking about. You've got to start at the basics.
So I love the name of your podcast, by the way, because that's critical. You wouldn't believe the number of reps I've talked to, "I can't get a hold of this person. I've sent them seven emails." How many times have you picked up the phone? "Well, none. They haven't emailed me back yet to tell me when I can call them." Guys, pick up the phone. You'd be amazed at, even in a complex sales cycle like we're in with ERP, people will get emails and let them sit. They get busy, they've got a day job. Like you said, they're out doing whatever they do in the organization.
If you pick up the phone and you happen to get them, "Hey, Drewbie, sent you an email about what you're asking for. We're a great fit to help. Let me know when you've got 30 minutes next week to set up time and let me understand your needs and tell you if we're a fit or not." That's valuable for them. Okay, this guy's going to listen to what I need and tell us if they're a fit or not. That helps me on my journey. Pick up the phone, call the damn leads, man, just like you say.
People are afraid to do that these days. I'm getting a few grays here, so I'm getting into my middle years here. And I think some of the younger reps especially, don't be afraid to pick up the phone and call somebody. It's tremendously easier to establish a rapport, to have some, you could send one email back and forth with questions and answers for a week, or you have a five minute talk and you get everything that you need to know. So it can speed up time to close as well. I think that's a good piece of advice.
Drewbie Wilson: No, I love that. And I think that for the younger reps especially, just because it's the way you would want to do thing, by text, email, hiding behind the phone, that doesn't mean that's how your prospects want to do things. And Ryan, you made a great point of like, hey, I've got to get in their shoes. It doesn't matter what I want. It's like, what do these people want? And especially when you're dealing with something that's a little more complex or requires a bit more nuance, you can't necessarily translate that through text messages, emails, DMs. It just doesn't work the same.
So getting on the phone, having those conversations, building genuine rapport by asking questions, and then Ryan said this earlier, listening to what people are saying. It's funny, man. They'll tell you everything you need to know to get them to the next stage of the process.
And so Ryan, what I would love to know, man, because I'm sure you and I could sit here and nerd out all day on sales and follow up and systems, but that's your specialty. I'm excited to come and check out more of what you guys do. But if the listener heard something today where they're like, that guy, he's speaking my language, what's the best way for us to come and find you, check out more about the systems and stuff that you offer, things like that?
Ryan Pollyniak: Yeah, sure. I'm big on LinkedIn. I've been doing a lot of blogs and we do webinars and podcasts like this one to get our name out there. But if you want to find me on LinkedIn, there are not any other Ryan Pollyniaks out there. I'm the only one. So feel free to drop me a line on LinkedIn. Western Computer is the name of our company, westerncomputer.com. We do ERP, do CRM, CRM adoption, business process, all of these things within the Microsoft World primarily. So more than happy to have a conversation.
Look, I've been helping companies for 15 years do this kind of stuff, and I'm always interested to hear the next story. It's always something new. We're not always the best fit, and we're glad to tell people that, but commonly we are as well. So I would say, yeah, come out to the website. We've got a great interactive chat. Or ping me on LinkedIn. Glad to talk about what you're looking for.
Drewbie Wilson: I love that, man. And we'll make sure we include all those links and everything in the show notes. That way it's easy for everyone to come and find you. And again, this is one of those things where I really am appreciative and grateful for you taking the time out of your day to share some wisdom, to share some knowledge.
Because again, sales is such a fun industry. There's people that have been here for 20, 30 years, still learning something new every day. And there's people that are just starting day one today. And I'm really grateful that if they were here with us, man, they've picked up some amazing nuggets. They've got some awesome things that they can go and use in their process right now to be successful. So Ryan, man, thank you again for hanging out with me today. I truly appreciate it.
Ryan Pollyniak: Drewbie, it was a pleasure. Thanks for having me on.
Drewbie Wilson: You got it. If you guys are here with us, you liked it, you know what to do next, go share the show. Tag me, tag Ryan. Let the world know you enjoyed our conversation today. Hit the subscribe button, leave us a review, you know all the things.
But more importantly, if you are in sales, you have an awesome story and you want to share it with the world, I want you to be able to share it on this platform. Head over to callthedamnleads.com/podcast. Send us your information. Set up an interview time. Let's talk. I'd love to have these conversations because here's what I know. You don't know what you don't know, but once you do, then you have an option to go out and absolutely crush it with that knowledge. So take what you've learned today, implement it. Go have some amazing days, and you know what to do next. Call the damn leads. We'll see you on the next one.
