Grab a cup of cheer and join us for the Holiday edition of 365WineTrade Technology Talks. Hosts Tony Castellano and Jacklyn O'Brien are joined by
Chris De Visser of Continia. Tap into their discussion on the different technological needs of wine and spirits industry distributors, producers and importers, and how Continia and 365WineTrade are meeting those needs.
As an added bonus, Debra Knotek joins in the holiday discussion!
Learn more at www.365winetrade.com/podcast
Tony Castellano:
Hello, and thank you for joining another 365WineTrade Technology Talks powered by Western Computer. I'm your host, Tony Castellano, and I want thank you for joining us today for our special holiday edition of the Technology Talks. In just a few moments, I'll be bringing on our guest Chris De Visser with Continia. But before I do that, I wanted to bring in my co-host and co Jacklyn O'Brien. Jackie, how are you doing today?
Jacklyn O'Brien:
Hey, Tony. Doing great, thanks.
Tony Castellano:
So is it tough to get into the holiday spirit when you're living on the beaches of Florida out there?
Jacklyn O'Brien:
It is definitely tough. I hate to say that we are approaching 80 degrees right now, so it is definitely not what I'm used to being born and raised on the Northeast, but thankfully I just make trips up that way and it fuels that holiday feeling.
Tony Castellano:
Oh, that's the way to do it. Of course, we're just turning the page into December now, just pass through Thanksgiving. So lot of holiday spirit I hear talking with customers out there and just folks on the street. I think everyone... It's been a long two years and they're excited about having a back to normal holiday. Would you agree?
Jacklyn O'Brien:
Oh, absolutely. The holidays are hopefully going to be normal and I know a lot of the events that are finally back in person, it feels really good.
Tony Castellano:
Yeah, it sure does. Well, for those of you joining us for the first time, there's a lot of podcasts out there about wine and the making of wine around the world. We wanted to take a little different spin on it and talk about the technology that's driving the wine and spirits industry. So today I'll be introducing our guests, Chris De Visser from continue in just a moment. But we wanted to kick off today with our "Through the Grapevine" segment where we highlight local and national writers and the hottest topics in the wine and spirits industry. So Jackie, I know, but we've been leafing through a lot of information. What was the hot topic that you liked for this session?
Jacklyn O'Brien:
I found an article by Meredith Galante and it was a bit of a positive one, so I wanted to highlight that. It focuses on how despite the plunging stock market, premium wine sales are actually up when I found this to be pretty interesting because as you know, there's a lot of uncertainty in the world right now, but one thing that has definitely remained stable is baby boomers love for premium wine. Sales of bottles of wine that are priced at $100 or more are actually up 35%. In contrast, sales of wines $30 or less are actually down almost 10%.
Tony Castellano:
That is fascinating. It is funny because I had seen an article recently and attended a podcast, kind of webinar, that was talking about how we get closer to the holidays. The premium brands actually tend to do better. So that's so interesting that it's fallen in line with what you've read there. I know myself, you tend to give a little bit more as you give a holiday gift. So you do get up to that $30 threshold. Very interesting.
Jacklyn O'Brien:
It really is, Tony, and especially with everything going on right now, you would probably assume the opposite. Maybe we're not splurging for $300 bottles of wine and we're going for the $20 wine, but that is just not the case.
Tony Castellano:
Yeah. It's funny because I was on a presentation for SipSource and they were talking exactly about that. How is the economy altering people's buying patterns and what section of the people is it affecting? Typically at that higher end, it's not affecting them as much. So they do typically spend a little bit more at the holidays. So fascinating to watch some of those things as they unfold.
The article that I wanted to highlight today, and this is from our friends over there at SevenFifty Daily, they put out really good stuff. This is from Andrew Kaplan and it's talking about the escalating shortage of warehouse space in the beverage industry. So as I was reading deeper, it seems like all those pictures of the long container lines as the port has diminished a little bit, but now what they're having trouble with is housing those wine and spirits, they're at the port before they're being picked up. So right now it's not felt nationally, but more at those major import hubs. Even Hillebrand Gori North America, which is one of the top in North America, they're having shortages, they're seeing shortages, and this is adding delays and pickup from the freight forwarder.
So very interesting to see that. Of course, we talked about supply chain delays in general, but this one being very specific to the port. So Jackie, I know you probably have a couple of ports on your side too there. Have you been seeing anything as you go through some of the articles
Jacklyn O'Brien:
Specifically around imports? No. I really have been focusing on the sales aspect, what's trending, what's hot, what's up, what's down.
Tony Castellano:
To that, in fact, I did read another article talking about the alcohol e-commerce sales and how they're slated to rise in the future. So this one's coming from the spirits business, Nikolai Caruthers and talking about alcohol e-commerce sales slated to rise about 34% over the next three to five years. Of course they talk about the different segments, the segment on the spirit side, it's a lot stronger in the numbers than traditional wine sales. So convenience seems to be the key as I read through the article, the consumerization driving the demand and how they're going to get to the product, but positive side on the spirits, not quite as much on the wine side. So hopefully they don't hit the mark exactly.
Jacklyn O'Brien:
Yeah, 34% is a pretty big number, but I have to say I would fall in line and if I can order some wine to my door from my computer, I would probably do it.
Tony Castellano:
Yeah, no doubt. It is definitely about convenience. And I also noticed they talked about at the holidays, people you tend to stock it up a little bit more because the weather gets cold, they don't want to be running out every time they need to buy some wine. So interesting stuff. So I'd like to bring on our guest for today, Chris De Visser with Continia Software. Chris, how are you doing today?
Chris De Visser:
Hi, everyone. I'm very good, thank you. How are you?
Tony Castellano:
Doing great. Thanks so much for joining us today. What area of the world are you in today?
Chris De Visser:
I am in New York City, so I know all about ordering wine and spirits online.
Tony Castellano:
Yeah, no doubt. Are you right there in the city?
Chris De Visser:
Yes, and I don't like to carry around the bottles since driving in the city is pretty much impossible. All of this stuff happens online.
Tony Castellano:
Yeah, no doubt. Well I always love New York around the holidays, being a guy from Arizona and seeing cactuses most of the time, it's always great to get that holiday feel. The weather's a little cooler and just feels like Christmas. Is that what you guys are experiencing today?
Chris De Visser:
Absolutely, yeah. It's the Christmas trees, the seal stands are popping up everywhere and yeah, New York is very Christmassy. So definitely getting into the mood while being in the city.
Tony Castellano:
I think it's just like any other town. People are a little nicer when the holidays are around. Even in New York.
Chris De Visser:
Even New Yorkers. Yes.
Tony Castellano:
That's right. Well, Chris, it's a pleasure to have you on the podcast today. Of course, I've known and worked with you for many years through the Microsoft Dynamics channel. Tell us a little bit about yourself, your background and your company for the folks out there.
Chris De Visser:
Well, I'm originally from the Netherlands, but I've been living in New York City now for about nine years. I moved for another company in the dynamic space to the US, to set up their US office. Did that for a number of years and have been with, Continia now for a good three and a half years. Continia has a couple products for a conversation of today. I think the focus is on our document capture product. We recently came with a new campaign around our brand, it's about time, something that, especially, I think, in the wine industry is also very applicable. But the other way around there are more, time is better.
But when we're dealing with financial processes and handling paperwork within an organization, you want to spend less time on that of course. We see that particularly in the wine and spirits industry where there is a lot of paperwork involved with import and export of those kind of things, and it's not core business. So our product takes a PDF for a paper document and creates an electronic version of that inside of the ERP platform and then can run it through all kinds of workflows as much as possible automatically so that the people in the organization can focus on what they're good at.
Tony Castellano:
Yeah. That whole idea of drag and drop, I think everyone's so used to the iPhones and the consumerization of IT, that drag and drop feature to bring something into the ERP, have that document get read and actually create a document that's a big time saver, that's usually quite a manual process. Is that where you see the most value from your solution?
Chris De Visser:
So we are automating any type of document processing in the ERP. So typically it's looking at the AP site where we take an vendor invoice, we create the invoice, we can match it to a purchase order and a purchase receipt for that three-way match and then automatically approve it if it'll matches. But you can also look at it, and I know some of our joint clients do that, on the sales side where if you have a lot of smaller mom and pop stores that place their order still via fax, but maybe via email with a purchase order or a small note like, "Hey, can I please order so many cases of this or that." We can take that document as well and create a sales order in the ERP. So it's really any type of document that we can help automate.
Tony Castellano:
Yeah, it's amazing and quite a time saver. I think as the economy changes a bit, folks are looking for technology solutions that are going to save them time and money. By looking through your architectures, it looks like that's really what you guys deliver.
Chris De Visser:
Exactly. The ROI is almost instant, especially if people are doing everything manually by now. Just keying in each order, each invoice, any piece of document you receive, keying it in. It's just a waste of time. That's why we say it's about time. You can have all the money in the world, but you cannot buy yourself more time. So anything you can save there to focus on the things that matter is going to be helpful.
Tony Castellano:
Yeah, well that's music to mine and Jackie's ears, we're always talking about that time experience with the technology. Tony Castellano 365WineTrade Technology Talks. I'm talking with Chris De Visser at Continia Software. So Chris, I think Jackie had a couple questions for you today too.
Jacklyn O'Brien:
Yeah. Thanks, Tony. Chris, I would love to know what type of customers are you working with most frequently? Is it distributors, producers, importers?
Chris De Visser:
I would almost say it's somewhat evenly divided. All these organizations deal with invoices from vendors. They all deal with receiving orders from their clients via email, via snail mail, so we see an even use. The big gain is obviously in high volume situations. So the bigger importers, they have high volume documents, they do a lot of purchase order matching and purchase receipt matching. I think they have a quicker ROI, but even smaller producers can benefit. The licensing also is based off of how much they use it. The more they use it, the price per document drops automatically. So it's set up in a way that small to large organizations can benefit from it.
Jacklyn O'Brien:
Chris, would you say that it differs for the top feature or requirement that they're asking for? Or are you really kind of seeing the same thing regardless if they're a distributor or an importer?
Chris De Visser:
Yeah, well I think the top feature for importers is that three-way match. They are really more bureaucratic in their paperwork. They have all these importing documents as well. They might even have some certificates that have to come along with orders through the process as well as it's a very regulated industry. But I would say that's the big one for the importers. You'll see the distributors and the producers, they get orders so that they like obviously the AP side, but it's more interesting for them to receive orders from clients a little bit quicker. So I think that's more the top feature for that side of the industry.
Jacklyn O'Brien:
Last question for you Chris. What trends are you seeing the most in the marketplace right now?
Chris De Visser:
Well, it hooks into a little bit of the news articles that you guys discussed at the beginning of the podcast. Obviously e-commerce, there's a lot of people placing orders online and a lot of that is then also generating an AP stream of documents that needs to be processed that also allows to sell to clients that may not be very close by.
So there is sort of a globalization going on to the extent that the regulation allows for that, I would say. I see that for myself as well. As a consumer, I buy it online and I find the best price for the wine that I want. I think customers buy from anywhere at this point if they can and we see the effects of that on the use of our products.
Tony Castellano:
Great. Well, Chris, can you stick around and we'll talk a little bit more after the commercial break?
Chris De Visser:
I would love to, yeah.
Tony Castellano:
Great. We'll take a moment and hear a word from our sponsor.
Speaker 4:
This edition of 365WineTrade Technology Talks is brought to you by 365WineTrade by Western Computer. 365WineTrade is the ultimate cloud solution for wine and spirits distributors built specifically for your industry. It supports embedded multi-state compliance inventory and 3PL management, a three tier compliant pricing engine, purchase consolidation, direct imports, and more to help you run as smoothly as the wine you enjoy. 365WineTrade takes advantage of the Microsoft Cloud Azure environment so you can be assured your company's data is safe. To learn more about 365WineTrade, please visit www.365winetrade.com/techtalks. That's T-E-C-H-T-A-L-K-S. Now back to you, Tony.
Tony Castellano:
We're back, 365WineTrade Technology Talks. I'm your host Tony Castellano. I'm talking with Chris De Visser from Continia Software and of course my co-host Jackie O'Brien is with me. So I don't want to do a Seinfeld episode here. But Chris, as you know in this industry you can't always name names. So can you give us a typical or a certain profile of a customer that's using your solution that you'd like to share with us?
Chris De Visser:
Sure, yeah, I'll think about them but not mention the names. If I look at distributor importer side, we have a joint client here on the Northeast Coast that imports wine from mostly Europe, I believe. They do a decent document volume. So they receive their invoices from European countries, they have European date formatting on it. The numbers, the way the dots and the commas work on these invoices are often different. So they were a little bit hesitant when we spoke to them in pre-sales phase on like, "Can this work?" We are an American company, but we receive invoices from all over the world, gain your system process on those, and we are originally a European company actually, so I could say wholeheartedly, of course we can do that, but it was nice that we could show that on the spot and we've been saving them hours and hours and hours of manually entering invoices and even sometimes trying to interpret invoices because our system can read those files sometimes even a little bit better than a person that's not familiar with some of that formatting. So that's been a great one.
We also have a smaller winery in Napa Valley that receives orders and they were keying that in while... They really want to just be busy with making good wine and not deal with data entry. So that's another example where to get it with Western Computer, we've brought them something very quickly and saved them a ton of time in processing those documents.
Tony Castellano:
Yeah, and I'm so glad you mentioned that because in the wine and spirits industry, they would prefer to be working in the fields. They would prefer to be fermenting the wine, that's where they want to spend their time. So I think there was an era of technology where it wasn't quite landing as quickly as they wanted. They weren't seeing as much value as they wanted, as they do from their grapes.
But now I'm seeing the technology, it's really providing hyper value. There's a low cost of ownership, you get in with a very small investment, get it working and then you automate it and that's where the magic happens. That's where you save couple hours a week and you can actually take a vacation or go to happy hour. So very important that you mentioned that, Chris.
Chris De Visser:
Yeah, no, that's exactly the point.
Tony Castellano:
So as you're talking to folks, and we're looking towards the end of the year here, what are some topics that you think will be top of mind next year?
Chris De Visser:
So something that I've been thinking would have a breakthrough in North America a little bit sooner, but I think next year could really be the year is XML invoices. We see this in Europe a lot also because of government regulation where it's required to be able to send an invoice in an XML format. I know it's a scary technical term, but really what it means is an invoice is not shaped as a piece of paper that we can all read and print, but it's shaped as a coded file that contains a lot more information, a lot more detail.
Especially, in the wine and spirit industry, you deal with a lot of information about the product that may or may not fit in the formatting of a traditional invoice. So these XML invoices will, I think, have their breakthrough. My bet is that the majority of the European exporters can and would like to already send an invoice in XML format. It's just that this market is not ready to receive it just yet. So I would certainly say "Keep an eye on that." It's a bit boring, it's a bit technical, but it's going to bring a lot more accurate data into the financial systems than you are able to do so today.
Tony Castellano:
Well, an actually fascinating topic and I'll bring Jackie back in here because I know Jackie works with some of our international customers, but Chris, it almost is a scary flashback to when my Swiss European wife said to me, "What's that?" And I said, "It's a check." And she said, "We got rid of checks 10 years ago." Because the Europeans are always a little bit ahead here. So fascinating that you're bringing that up. It's a great concept. I personally hadn't heard that, but it definitely sounds like something that can normalize things across borders. As we know, distributors, importers are working with people all over the world.
Chris De Visser:
Yeah, exactly. In a simplified way, we are limited to what we could put on a piece of paper, but with XML you're not limited so you can fill it out and provide a lot more detail.
Tony Castellano:
Absolutely. Well, Chris, we've learned some good business things from you. Of course it's the holidays here. What are you thankful for at the end of this year as you head towards the end of the holiday season?
Chris De Visser:
Well, I guess it felt a little bit more normal this year. We had some travel, we had some face-to-face meetings, so I'm thankful that, hopefully, never say never, but that things seem to be getting back to normal in terms of meeting people. I mean that's the spirit of the month of December and the holidays of course. So yeah, that's definitely what I'm happy for.
Jacklyn O'Brien:
Yeah, Chris, I think everyone would probably agree with that. The Zoom meetings were fun for so long. Nothing beats getting to hang out with people face to face and especially in this industry, have a glass of wine or go to a happy hour. So would have to agree with you there. Into Tony's point, as we are inching closer to the holidays, I'm going to just switch gears a little bit and ask some fun questions. So Chris, do you have a favorite either holiday memory, maybe a show or a song or a smell?
Chris De Visser:
Well, I mean we started with New York City. New York City is really great around the holidays, the way the city also decorates the streets or the corporate sponsors do their the Rockettes show. I never heard of it being not natively from the US or New York City, but it brings a lot of happiness to everybody. For me, I think this is like psychology. My birthday is actually the 26th of December, which is in the Netherlands second Christmas day. So not that I'm as excited about my birthday as it was 30 years ago, but it's still like, "Oh, my birthday is coming up." So I think that's just something subliminal that always plays through.
Jacklyn O'Brien:
That's funny. New York in general could be a memory. So I actually grew up on Long Islands, so very similar feelings. I remember taking the train into the city just to walk around to go shopping and the Rockettes are amazing. Used to want to be one when I was a kid, so I love that answer.
Chris De Visser:
Yeah, my two-year-old daughter is very excited the moment they start dancing.
Jacklyn O'Brien:
That's awesome. Chris, what about a favorite holiday drink or cocktail then?
Chris De Visser:
So I'm boring. I stick to my year round cocktail. I'm into Negronis for the last years. I may spend a little bit more money on the type of gin or the type of vermouth, but I stick with what I'd like to drink in the weekends.
Jacklyn O'Brien:
Okay, fair enough. Hey, stick with what you know, right?
Chris De Visser:
Exactly. Yeah.
Jacklyn O'Brien:
All right, Chris. Well, for anyone who is listening right now and maybe wants to learn a little bit more about you guys and Continia, where would you advise that they go?
Chris De Visser:
Well, of course our website continia.com. We are also global, so if you're over in Europe or in Asia, Australia Pacific, or of course here in North America, we can talk directly and Western Computer is a great partner also. So certainly reach out to any of the contexts there to learn more.
Jacklyn O'Brien:
Okay. Then Chris, before we wrap up here, are there any upcoming events that you wanted to highlight?
Chris De Visser:
We go to the general shows, but I would certainly recommend to talk to the Western people at the wine spirit industry specific shows about our solutions. I would say at this point everybody at Western Computer knows about us, so you'll be in good hands with them at those events.
Jacklyn O'Brien:
Okay.
Tony Castellano:
Well thanks Jackie and thanks Chris for that. Yeah. Valued partner with the 365WineTrade and with Western Computer for many years. Chris, we really appreciate your time and learning a little bit more about you today.
Chris De Visser:
It was fun to do.
Tony Castellano:
Well, hey, Merry Christmas out there. Happy new Year and hopefully we'll get to see you in New York sometime soon.
Chris De Visser:
That would be great. Merry Christmas, everybody.
Tony Castellano:
Merry Christmas.
Jacklyn O'Brien:
Thanks, Chris.
Tony Castellano:
Well, exciting guests joining us today. Chris De Visser with Continia Software. You can check out their information on their website and we've been working with Chris for many, many years, so it's good to have them on the podcast. So Jackie, we're in December. I'm really feeling the holiday spirit this year, I must say. I've got my Snoopy music on. I've got my half little Christmas tree. What's on your desk today?
Jacklyn O'Brien:
I don't have any Christmas music on. I do have a mini Christmas tree in the room with me. When I actually said last night when I was cooking dinner that from here on out, the only music to be played is a Christmas playlist.
Tony Castellano:
Well, that is so funny because my daughter 14 years old, she literally took out the computer and started playing Christmas music because she said, "It is time, dad." And I was like, "Hey, I like it."
Jacklyn O'Brien:
Yes, I agree.
Tony Castellano:
So I'd like to welcome back Debra Knotek our 365WineTrade specialist, and talk about our events calendar. Deborah, how you doing today?
Debra Knotek:
Excellent. Thank you, Tony.
Tony Castellano:
Happy holidays to you and everyone out there.
Debra Knotek:
You as well.
Tony Castellano:
I know you just got a chance to go to a local event there and wanted to highlight some of the things you saw there at the WIN Expo.
Debra Knotek:
Yeah, it was super exciting. I had some reservations about it just because we had one of our rare California rainstorms, which will keep a lot of the delicate flowers home, but people really came out in droves for the event. So really large attendance this year we had some different booth positioning, front and center, and so talk to a lot of folks. Super exciting show and like I said, very well attended.
Tony Castellano:
Well, that's so great to hear. Yeah, little Rain I've heard. Definitely messes with the Californian, so glad they were still able to come out. Of course, as we're winding down this year, you've been to a couple events, is there another one that you wanted to highlight?
Debra Knotek:
Onward and upward. So we just got done with three shows in four weeks, every two weeks whether we needed one or not. All of them were really great events for us. We'll get started next month at the end of January for the Unified Symposium that's held every year in Sacramento, California. Once again, just a really broad show in the wine business with everything from capsules, corks, labels, tanks, everything there. But the thing I noticed in yesterday's show and looking at the exhibitors for the Unified Symposium show is software and technology have become a bigger and bigger play all the time in the wine industry. So people are more dependent on having technology help them do more, sell more, just be able to automate and regulate a lot of what they do.
Tony Castellano:
Yeah, that is funny you mentioned that. Because I did remember the first couple of shows I went to. I thought there wasn't a lot of technology companies. So yeah, you're definitely seeing that shift because there's a lot of pressure on for them to deliver and to automate some of those processes, so fascinating.
Debra Knotek:
Yeah, the industry has changed a lot with them just having to do more where before having whole marketing organizations as it relates to social media and the DTC movement all of a sudden to be able to accomplish all that and do it well, you do need to add some technology to the mix.
Tony Castellano:
Yeah, no doubt. Well, we have West Coast Christmas and East Coast Christmas on the line here. So Debra, what's your favorite Christmas feeling? Is it a smell or a food or a show?
Debra Knotek:
Well, I'm usually headed off to Colorado, which inevitably just get a beautiful snow in Steamboat Springs every year. Haven't been able to do that for three years. So that's coming up and I'm super excited. But one of my favorite Christmas time traditions is a drink that I make around the holidays that I always really love and it's called a hot apple pie. So to make one of these, basically take a gallon of apple cider and put it in a soup pot equivalent or could be a slow cooker, add a cinnamon stick about three or four cloves and just cook that on a medium to low heat for about an hour. And then there's an Italian alcohol called Tuaca. So in an ideal way you'd have a clear glass coffee mug and you would add an ounce and a half of Tuaca, put ladle some of your spiced apple cider into the mug and then tap it with some homemade whipped cream and it tastes just like hot apple pie.
Tony Castellano:
Wow, that sounds amazing. Jackie.
Jacklyn O'Brien:
Yeah, that sounds really, really good. But I guess on my end, it's different now being in Florida where it's warm compared to some childhood memories where it's cold and cozy and it's just an overall feeling in New York. I would say that whole northeast when it comes to December and Christmas time.
But regardless of where I'm located, I would say one of my favorite memories is just decorating the tree as a family. We'd make it a whole night, we bake cookies, we hang ornaments. As a kid I was fighting to make sure my ornament was front and center. So I hope to continue on with that tradition in the future for many years to come.
Then for a holiday drink, I would say, and this is new, so it's not a favorite, it's something that I'm going to be trying out this year. If it was not the holidays, my go-to cocktail would be an espresso martini. So I am excited. Next week I'm hosting a Christmas party and my cocktail will be a gingerbread martini. Sounds delicious. It is super simple. All you need is vodka, half and half or a heavy cream and then gingerbread syrup.
Tony Castellano:
Wow. That does sound simple.
Jacklyn O'Brien:
Simple and fun. Then of course you can rim the glass and I'll probably do some red and green Christmas sprinkles and just make it look cute.
Tony Castellano:
Oh, wow. That sounds amazing. I'm almost embarrassed to say my favorite Christmas drink is just a Bailey's on ice. Maybe with a touch of cinnamon. I got to up my game here. For me, the holidays have always been a special time. An Italian family, always big, big get togethers. So those were the golden days. As we get older, you have a little bit less of that. But I'll just always remember light jazz playing, whether it's Vince Guaraldi, who's kind of the Snoopy guy, or just some very smooth jazz. The beautiful lights of the Christmas trees and always a fire. There was always a fireplace in one of our homes. So it's just always a nice warm feeling as you're relaxing and celebrating the year. I think we need to do a lot of celebrating this year. So first and foremost, I wanted to thank Debra for joining us today. Thank you for being a part of the podcast, Debra. We appreciate all your hard work out there.
Debra Knotek:
You're welcome. Thanks for having me.
Tony Castellano:
Yeah. To Jackie O'Brien putting up with me. Thanks for being the co-host on the show. You definitely brought a light and a great viewpoint to the show, so we appreciate all you've done.
Jacklyn O'Brien:
Absolutely. I enjoy doing it, Tony.
Tony Castellano:
And I do enjoy sitting in my office here talking to the world. Hopefully people are still listening. We want to thank you or so appreciative of all the blessings that we have as a company, as individuals, and we appreciate you listening to our little podcast here. To everyone out there, merry Christmas, happy holidays, and we'll look forward to seeing you in 2023.
